Show me your Veto Slots

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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Lujo on Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:18 pm

I also sort of think they aren't - there aren't any really easy to do silver challenges from a newbie / casual perspective. As I've moaned about incessantly - I still can't figure out a way to unlock the assasins dagger.

Second thing about quest items is that there are many different categories and no obvious simetry. For example, there are no "mis-directional" dungeon "4 class comletion" unlocks for the north and the south, and the east and west both unlock magic user gear (Battlemage Ring and Mage Plate if I'm not much mistaken).

Also, I'm using the quest item prep for both platemail and tri-sword users (when I'm not prepping them), soul orb/viper ward scumming, battlemage ring / MW / Mage Plate guys (biggest focus on magic gear), and it also includes Martyr Wraps and Gloves of Midas AND a whole bunch of really niche stuff. It's a bit of a mess tbh.

I see a whole bunch of approaches to putting some order into it. One would be to have the first few items anyone unlocks through questing (or rather, the items unlocked in Venture Cave and Den of Danger) expand the "basic" pool rather than be Quest items. Then figure out how many quests would that need and what the "complete" pool would be (also define the quests for Venture cave - I'd love to have 4 questilnes for eah class building simmilar to Unlikely Heroes).

This would make the standard pool a bit more "embargo" proof to discourage, erm, enterpenurial minded individuals like myself from overly easy shennanigans.

Then I'd deffinitely decide upon what items do Slime Pits, Cursed Oasis, Magma Mines and the Berserker Camp give out for "Complete with X classes" quests, figure out what category they go in and have them be decent items for various approaches (Battlemage Ring and Platemail come to mind, not sure about the other but Crystal Ball and Fire Heart could be nice once they are "fixed in place"). They could also increase the basic pool just with less chance of appearing, sort of "cap it off". Or not.

And then have the Challenge Rewards include the Puzzle Pack rewards (Soul Orb and Viper Ward) for a good mix of general-purpose / niche stuff for what is now the "Quest Items Prep" - people would still be taking it for Martyr Wraps, Gloves of Midas and so on and so forth. I guess.


There really ought to be a thread about this.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Lujo on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:20 am

Darvin wrote:
The Avatar wrote:I'd probably shut out Mage Plate for the quest item pool.

Yeah, it's definitely either you prep it or you don't want it, with nothing in between. Probably a poster boy for items that are both in your locker and vetoed.


I never ever thought about prepping the damned thing before, but here's an idea:

What you describe is basicaly a VICIOUS reward item. And naga city doesn't give one out.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Darvin on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:30 pm

What you describe is basicaly a VICIOUS reward item. And naga city doesn't give one out.

You kidding me? I'd love to have the artifacts appear in shops (if they had a reasonable price point). Resist All? Refreshing death protection? Awesome stuff that I'd love to purchase in-dungeon if the deities/glyphs line up for it.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:54 pm

Definitely. Actually, the Ward and Symbol are worth 50 (or 100?) and the shield sells for 18 I believe. If they all costed 50 or so it might be fair.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Lujo on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:40 pm

You misunderstood me, an item that you'd veto and locker at the same time would in functionality make a VICIOUS quest reward, the way they work NOW.

And as for the current VICIOUS stuf being available in shops... I really don't know. Too many variables, too little info on what the devs think about it.

What does the Avatars Symbol do again?
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Darvin on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:16 pm

You misunderstood me, an item that you'd veto and locker at the same time would in functionality make a VICIOUS quest reward, the way they work NOW.

I see what you're saying. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Actually, it'd be hilarious to veto the vicious reward items.


What does the Avatars Symbol do again?

That statement pretty much says it all :roll:

9% both resists, every time you kill a monster it charges up for 10% (maximum charge 100%), can be activated to turn its charge into temporary attack bonus for a single attack.

Generally not a very good item. The biggest issue is that it's active-use effect works best for damaging-spiking, but its passive effect works best for attrition regen-fighting. Its own internal dissonance makes it very ineffective as a preparation.

The only vicious trophy I actually use is the Dragonshield.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Agreed, but I'd be willing to buy any of them...
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby Lujo on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:29 pm

And thats the problem, what both of you just said - the dragonshield is too good to be allowed in the shops (or in the game IMO, and I don't think I'm bragging when I state that I'm probably the world champion in overusing that thing). At one point I had the exact formulation for why exactly this is so, but it's lost somwhere among the text walls.

The Avatars Ward is actually more of a high end shop item, and the symbol... I don't know, since I skipped the whole old cydstepp craze I seem to value an individual source od Death protection more than the average guy (and probably closer to what they are actually worth, or ment to be). I can't tell if having such a steady and stable source available in shops would be too good or a nice strat cornerstone.

But the damned shield is a big problem, just by existing it causes a need to have less resistance items around and to not put any in shops to make %res stacking depend on boons more. It's ment to be a post endgame reward, but it alters the game too much once it becomes available to ever consider not unlocking it (in my expirience). I'd rather not have it in the game at all, but have the +8 charm from Cursed Oasis be unlocked by completing it 4 times and be available in the shops.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby gjaustin on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:52 pm

I rarely ever prep the Dragon Shield anymore, since there's so many other good options.

The problem with Avatar Symbol is that 10% per kill isn't quite enough to make up for 9% all resists. If it were a small item...

And the problem with Namtar's Ward is that it doesn't provide enough of a benefit against the boss to be worth prepping. if it could hold 2 or 3 charges before maxing out, it would be a lot better.
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Re: Show me your Veto Slots

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:06 pm

It's really nice for Orc Rogues. In fact, both the ward and the symbol are. I have to agree on the Dragon Shield. Still, it fits thematically. Perhaps simply removing the physical resistance. Then it would be a nice item, without breaking it too much. After all, The Matron is sort of anti-magic despite being a dragon.
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