Chaos Theory

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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Nandrew on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:18 am

Here's another cheeky little lore reinforcement: the classic Greek idea of the "labyrinth" *was* actually just one long, ridiculously twisted corridor as opposed to a strict "maze".

So remember, don't blame the guy who coded the algorithm, blame the ancient civilisation he stuck ever so loyally to! \:D/

Bloggorus wrote:I'll repeat a previous point, but i think Rex is supposed to be relatively easy to kill; the real danger is the Labyrinth itself. That kind of thinking requires a little backflip after fighting monsters and bosses the whole game, but I laways saw the Labyrinth as the point in the game where players learn that you have to consider the layout of a map as much as anything else. Either break the walls, or fall prey to it.


Basically this.

The labyrinth was always designed as a "challenge layout". When the one-long-corridor problem came about early on, some mitigating factors were introduced (the central room, individual scenario modifiers). In Labyrinth, the key is that you didn't have to hunt down the boss, it would actually come to you and offer more escape routes in the mix for savvy players.

Whether or not that's "free" enough right now is up for debate, but at the core the priorities remain the same: Rex doesn't have to be an astoundingly tough boss for the scenario to be legit. Getting his trophy right now is considered fairly damn hard, and that's a bottom line for me.

I'll be adjusting the Labyrinth sometime this week between the other polish tasks I've got lined up.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby fall_ark on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:59 am

Nandrew wrote:Whether or not that's "free" enough right now is up for debate, but at the core the priorities remain the same: Rex doesn't have to be an astoundingly tough boss for the scenario to be legit. Getting his trophy right now is considered fairly damn hard, and that's a bottom line for me.

I'll be adjusting the Labyrinth sometime this week between the other polish tasks I've got lined up.



Does Rex right now act any differently if he is slowed? If it's the same with those revenants then probably nothing. I remember them still cluttering around me with the slow effect. Could be a potential change.
Just throwing the idea out there.

For the Labyrinth itself. Maybe generate one or two mid-level "odd" monsters could help mitigating the situation a bit more? i.e. Teleportation, Cowardly and Knockback monsters.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Nandrew on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:53 pm

fall_ark wrote:For the Labyrinth itself. Maybe generate one or two mid-level "odd" monsters could help mitigating the situation a bit more? i.e. Teleportation, Cowardly and Knockback monsters.


The dungeon could do well with some mob minotaurs and a blink-type enemy. :)
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:08 pm

Agreed. Or, since they're so close to magma mines, goblin miners that drop wall bombs.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Darvin on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:10 pm

Adding in some limited use wall bombs would probably solve the problem.

Biggest difficulty with the dungeon layout is finding the monsters you need. Without wall-breaking power, it's highly probable that you will have to either unnecessarily kill popcorn to get past them, or else be blocked from exploring further by a monster you're not yet powerful enough to fight. The difficulty in searching out those "sweet spot" monsters that afford good bonus XP without being too hard to take down is what makes labyrinth so frustrating. This is a double-whammy, depriving you of bonus XP and of popcorn at the same time.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:34 pm

And regen space.

Still, I strongly believe that adding Goblin Miners with a *slightly* lowered chance of spawning is a fine solution.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:20 pm

While I like the idea of mob minotaurs from a gameplay perspective, I think that Rex loses something going from being THE minotaur of the labyrinth to merely A minotaur of the labyrinth. Goblin miners work better, I think.
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Bloggorus on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:29 pm

Why not just put knockback on any old enemy?

A single knockback goo blob in the central area would be the ultimate wall-pulverising tool. Keep him alive, and drill your way through the maze
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby Bloggorus on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:33 pm

Nandrew wrote:Here's another cheeky little lore reinforcement: the classic Greek idea of the "labyrinth" *was* actually just one long, ridiculously twisted corridor as opposed to a strict "maze".

So remember, don't blame the guy who coded the algorithm, blame the ancient civilisation he stuck ever so loyally to! \:D/


Most appropriate!

Although please don't polish all the flavour out of the map, it's one of my favourites! I really enjoy the extra layer of strategy, and looking back at the destruction I've wrought on those lovely rows of walls.

If anything make it ALWAYS a long, single corridor and give players the tiniest nudge towards playing a wall-busting character.

If people aren't getting the point of the map, maybe it's intent needs a little clarification?
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Re: Chaos Theory

Postby The Avatar on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:38 am

The problem is then it REQUIRES you to have to bust through stuff. That disqualifies anyone one wants purist.
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