Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

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Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby FDru on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:21 pm

It used to be one of my favorite classes, but now it seems like complete rubbish. The poison glyph is too expensive, too situational (can't use it on undead, and might as well not bother trying on goats, golems or any other magic resist monster) and now he relies on it to get his damage bonus, or he suffers a gimped -20% damage all the time. It was frustrating just trying to beat Den of Danger with him, when I breezed through it with every other class (and what it took was eventually finding an early ENDISWAL glyph so I could use light foot to level up faster).

Speaking of ENDISWAL, is it sad that I'd much rather he start with that instead of APHEELSIK? Light foot is a lot more useful than poisoned blade in most cases. I just convert APHEELSIK immediately in 90% of runs.

I liked it a lot better when the poison glyph was a bonus, and not a requirement. In my experience it's useful at level 1 and then it's trash.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:30 pm

FDru wrote:It used to be one of my favorite classes, but now it seems like complete rubbish. The poison glyph is too expensive, too situational (can't use it on undead, and might as well not bother trying on goats, golems or any other magic resist monster) and now he relies on it to get his damage bonus, or he suffers a gimped -20% damage all the time. It was frustrating just trying to beat Den of Danger with him, when I breezed through it with every other class (and what it took was eventually finding an early ENDISWAL glyph so I could use light foot to level up faster).

Speaking of ENDISWAL, is it sad that I'd much rather he start with that instead of APHEELSIK? Light foot is a lot more useful than poisoned blade in most cases. I just convert APHEELSIK immediately in 90% of runs.

I liked it a lot better when the poison glyph was a bonus, and not a requirement. In my experience it's useful at level 1 and then it's trash.


Assassin is best in Vicious dungeons where monsters have insane combinations of abilities (e.g. First Strike and Weakening). He suffers a bit on damage, but this can easily be made up by being a Human or worshipping TT.

I'd say the worst class is the Fighter (generally) or the Monk (in specific cases - Hi Cursed Oasis!).
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:45 pm

The debuff hurts but it isn't as crippling as you might think. Starting with a penalty means that attack boosters help you more proportionately, something that Monks and Wizards know all about. After finding all three attack boosters, you go from being 80% to 85% of a baseline class with the same boosts. Humans with four conversions and three attack boosts are at 88% of a similar human, which isn't a big deal.

You need to use poison aggressively to reach high levels with as few kills as possible so that you can megaspike the boss. If you are it trashing APHEELSIK at level 2 you are definitely doing something wrong. I just did a Purist/Hoarder/Miser/Faithless Assassin run of Den of Danger, so he's certainly still viable.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:00 pm

Nope, he's definitely not. That insta-kill ability and starting with Poison Glyph is still good.

Worst in the game would probably be the Fighter.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Leotamer on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:06 pm

I never been to big of a fan of assasain so I can't tell the differance, but when I got a Goblin Assasain under Taurog: He can sweep most 1 boss dungeon. But, the me he is mostly just a quick way to gold farm. But I am not sure about viability in higher level dungeons.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Although it is weird that he is effectively less proficient with poison than any other class. He will get less damage per pass than any other class when not using fireballs as the primary attack. I wouldn't mind seeing him thrown a bone here. Maybe a slightly reduced casting cost? A six point APHEELSIK would put the Fireball+Poison combo into realistic reach by midgame without needing a lucky shop.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:10 pm

I disagree on fighter or assassin being the worst. I like the fighter. Still, don't know about the worst.
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I speak chaos.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Darvin on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:17 pm

Speaking of ENDISWAL, is it sad that I'd much rather he start with that instead of APHEELSIK?

ENDISWAL is one of the best glyphs in the game, even before accounting for the "swift foot" class feature. So no, not sad at all.

I just convert APHEELSIK immediately in 90% of runs.

It doesn't work on everything, but it's a great way to earn easy bonus XP against bandits or meatmen many levels higher than yourself.

I'd say the worst class is the Fighter (generally) or the Monk (in specific cases - Hi Cursed Oasis!).

I disagree with putting Fighter as the worst. His lower XP curve means that he gains level-ups much more rapidly and if he gets momentum it's just one ding after another. He's not so hot on vicious scenarios or purist runs where his lack of combat class features really haunts him, but with a good glyph and item prepped he's not bad at all.


My biggest complaint with the new Assassin nerf is that it has really entrenched human as the go-to race for melee or hybrid assassins, with elf dominating caster assassins. Goblin Assassin, one of the game's most interesting combos, just isn't effective anymore and that makes me sad.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:35 pm

Darvin wrote:I disagree with putting Fighter as the worst. His lower XP curve means that he gains level-ups much more rapidly and if he gets momentum it's just one ding after another. He's not so hot on vicious scenarios or purist runs where his lack of combat class features really haunts him, but with a good glyph and item prepped he's not bad at all.


Well, "worst" is relative. Yes, all classes in DD can win normal dungeons, and all of them can probably win hard dungeons. So we go one tier and see the Fighter has more problems in Vicious than most other classes and so... well, the conclusion has to be that he's the "worst."

Or in another words, in a game with you can somehow round down selectable "choices" to a scale of 1-10 with 1 being terrible and 10 being overpowered, a game with classes that has a power level that goes 7-8-8-8-9-10, the 7 dude is the "worst" even if he's still technically competent.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:05 pm

Yeah, we have finally gotten to a point where the gap between best and worst is reasonably narrow and there isn't really a 'bottom tier' anymore.

Also, what was the rationale for the nerf, anyway? I remember the Assassin being good, but I don't remember him running away with the game.
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