Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Lujo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Darvin wrote:I'd say Thief probably could use some buffing now. Not to where he used to be, but certainly a notch higher. At very minimum an extra booster of each type is nothing to sneeze at.

The first successful Naga City run posted on the forum was a resist-stacking Thief. Of course, that was back in the days of the 33% dragonshield. Thief was always my fav T1 class before the potion nerf and fighter buff, which made the Ding! monster delightful to play with.


The second part sort of explains why I personally wouldn't like potion jesus back in the game. The potions are very abstract, and so are the conversion points, so you can fuel whatever you need with him, sometimes simultaneously. We didn't have the terminology back then, but the way I look at things now, I can see why he was everyones favourite T1 and TX class. We like cheeze, obviously :D

But some kind of buff would be nice, though.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:10 pm

Speaking of which, has anyone tried to take the King of Ding approach to its logical extreme? Goblin Fighters of Earthmother, the next big thing or just a novelty?
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Lujo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:12 pm

Sidestepper wrote:Speaking of which, has anyone tried to take the King of Ding approach to its logical extreme? Goblin Fighters of Earthmother, the next big thing or just a novelty?


I've been pondering it forever, except the EM floor doesn't work in Gaan'Telet. TT does, however, but I'm still on vacation. That's the next Gaan'Telet run, when I figure out how to optimize the build. You can really ding up in there.

(Hint, elven fighter Enlightment is the the manamonster approach to it, it's no joke)

And while we're at it, anyone doing silly things with B2P Warlords?
Last edited by Lujo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:15 pm

Oh my... An elven fighter could easily be an INCREDIBLE mana spiker.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Lujo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:17 pm

The Avatar wrote:Oh my... An elven fighter could easily be an INCREDIBLE mana spiker.


I've been saying that spellcastin is really above curve right now, and I've allready been doing it for a while. It's... Rather good, I have to say. Probably the best fighter. You even get an asspull DP for mid fight ding extravaganza, or just lightning fast lvling.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Oh my God, Goblin Fighter of Earthmother uses IMAWAL to power-level, uses Entanglement once to mass slow the board, and then invokes Plantation to hit 100 piety and convert to Tikki Tooki. With the conversion piety and an Earthmother desecration, you could afford TWO Tikki's Edge right off the bat, without having killed ANY popcorn.

I wish we could make custom maps to test combos like this. I really want to try this, but you can only prep one altar and scumming is such a pain in the ass.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Darvin on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:19 pm

But some kind of [thief] buff would be nice, though.

What if the thief was allowed to overheal his health and mana with potions? How about that for a buff? Or perhaps stabber could be changed to work whenever you have full health and also grant first strike (thus giving conditional first strike to the entire thief guild roster)?


Oh my... An elven fighter could easily be an INCREDIBLE mana spiker.

Yup, basically the same idea as the Elf Assassin, except instead of easy popcorn harvesting you have lower level-up thresholds to fuel your dings. The fighter is actually the third best pure spellcaster class in the game, IMO, after the Assassin and Wizard.

Oh my God, Goblin Fighter of Earthmother uses IMAWAL to power-level, uses Entanglement once to mass slow the board, and then invokes Plantation to hit 100 piety and convert to Tikki Tooki

Done it; Goblin Fighters are delicious.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Lujo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:22 pm

Just to clarify the enlightment thing, it only works silly now becuase Absolution kills of high lvl guys leaving you popcorn, but otherwise you get 5 mp and a bunch of CP off Enlightment which means more MP, and youre converting stuff for GG which means more MP, and you get the picture. With all the dings, swapping out shouldn't be too hard.

EDIT:

@Darvin:

How'd the king of ding do? Where'd you try it?

And another thing about the Potion Jesus - I didn't really mind the old skillset the way it was (althouhg it is really fundamentally op when you look at it, sort of depending on other potion enablers / combos), but what really irked me about it was the fact that it was on a tier1 class, so it was available from the get go. It's a kingdom progression thing, what really bugged me was people getting used to that kind of power and effortless synergy and getting to think of it as baseline (there was a time when it was thought as "mid-tier" or "perfectly balanced", which it most deffinitely wasn't). It's a great and fun thing, but if noticably good then it's too powerfull to be everyone's default class.

I wouldn't mind having a potion jesus in the game, only not as a first tier class. Shame we're done with reworks, because reworking the thief somehow and working one of the higher tier classes into something like the old thief - I really wouldn't mind. Or simply adding something like a Witch as a 4th unlockable class. I'd say rework gorgon into it but then we'd lose the racial cp for potions gimmick, which is an integral part of the approach.
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby TigerKnee on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:09 am

I always thought thieves were powerful but fine before the nerf, which I accepted because because it made Gnome and Halfling thieves different.

Sure they have potions and one more of each booster, but Stabber isn't really a very interesting class feature once Strength potion got nerfed. Even in the old days when the classes and balance was very close to alpha level, there was still like 5 classes better than them.

Higher tier classes aren't supposed to be inherently stronger than lower tier ones. It's supposed to be like

T1: Ryu from Street Fighter (easy to learn, but still strong. Ryu sees decent use in competitive play)

NOT Dan from SF (Joke character only use to troll).

while T3 is something like Dhalsim: Most players can't use him to full potential but at competitive level at optimal play, he's technically stronger than Ryu. Not so much that everyone rushes to him but wanting to play Ryu is a valid playstyle choice.

And that's my view on it. Higher tiers = more complex in return for more power, but NEVER to the point where you go "Well, now I will never need to use Ryu/Fighter"
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Re: Is assassin the worst class in the game now?

Postby Darvin on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:55 am

How'd the king of ding do? Where'd you try it?

It wasn't recent, so I can't remember which dungeon or how it played out. All I remember is getting an absurd number of mid-battle level-ups and not even needing most of my resources to win.

Anyways, Goblin Fighters and Elf Fighters are my two favourite Fighters.
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