The Avatar and The Matron of Flames

[Lujo]

Just because I'm saying easier guards doesn't mean pathetic guards. If you gave all 5 demonlords 333 hp it would be 1665 hp total which is still incredibly difficult when you top on 10 DPs and a whole lot of dangerous effects. That doesn't leave you with too much blackspace unless you're blowing potions, refreshments, etc.

If I remember correctly, the current Avatar has 750 or so hp. 750 + 2220 (Demonlords) = 2970

Let's say we decided to weaken the Demonlords to 222 hp each. That's 1110 hp, 10 DPs, and a whole lot of dangerous effects. 2970 - 1110 = 1860. What if that happened? That would still be a considerable challenge, more blackspace or not.

Damage resistance accounted for? Because they add can adda lot. Also, boss damage is a big factor and wether you can fireball them or not. Also, the guards, if you fight them, sort of make you really pray for it if I remember my DI runs correctly. Haven't touched the library for ages thouhg.

[The Avatar]

Make you pray for it? What?

Anyways, my only qualm with DI is the fact that the firstborn (a common dragon you can fight in most dungeons) is harder than the last true dragon.

My main problem with DL is the Demonlords are so much harder than The Avatar.

[TigerKnee]

Lore reason for Matron being weaker: The Matron is the oldest dragon, so how many decrepit old ladies do you know that can beat a man in his prime in tip-top condition? Even Dragon old ladies

[The Avatar]

Err... Look at DnD as an example. The older the dragon, the more unfairly overpowered.

[Nandrew]

Dragons do not seem to age well in Desktop Dungeons universe, considering that the Matron is the last one.

But mechanically ... I know that my own perspective on Vicious runs is that they need to be as well-balanced for as broad a range of characters as possible. It is very difficult to create "one ultimate boss" who doesn't immediately become extremely inflexible to deal with, and suddenly a top-tier Vicious dungeon becomes uninteresting for a broader range of classes.

Better to have several bosses enjoy a "spread of power" and have players deal with an equal distribution of varied effects, while the final one you face receives a "lore prestige" rather than a mechanical one.

[The Avatar]

Still, in DI, The Matron and The Firstborn are INCREDIBLY similar, except The Firstborn is just flat out stronger.

In Dl, the real problem is the dungeon is REALLY hard right now. It's easily the hardest dungeon is the game. There was never any need to buff The Demonlords' hp and take away The Avatar's physical resists. The DPs were enough.

Right now, DI, DL, and Naga City are similar in that you're required to have an early game spread of abilities, and magic sucks late game. Why do most Vicious bosses need counter fireball or magic res?

[Darvin]

Why do most Vicious bosses need counter fireball or magic res?

There's also a lack of walls to push them into, so PISORF is quite limited.

[The Avatar]

I've PISORFed The Avatar, but that was when you could abuse stemgth potions, rock hearts, AND crystal balls.