Tiny Addition

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Tiny Addition

Postby Bloggorus on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:20 am

I thought it might be a good idea to add a little description in the desecration panel which tells you what will happen.

Ie, when you click the desecrate button it says

Desecrating Binlor will remove all your resistances, grant X piety and make your god more forgiving of mistakes. Are you sure you want to destroy this altar? Yes/No

That would make it very clear and make sure no new players are confused as to what desecration does.

This way also doesn't require referral to a codex or the wiki

edit: For instance i just forgot that desecrating mystera increases BOTH resistances, not just magic. Almost cost me the run
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby FDru on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:15 am

But discovering what they do is fun. And the flavor text is descriptive enough with most of them to tell you what happens (Dracul is kind of vague, I guess).

I'm still afraid of finding out what happens when you get the wrong side of the coin flip on JJ. I've been really lucky so far and always missed it :P
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Fran on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:28 am

FDru wrote:But discovering what they do is fun. And the flavor text is descriptive enough with most of them to tell you what happens (Dracul is kind of vague, I guess).

I'm still afraid of finding out what happens when you get the wrong side of the coin flip on JJ. I've been really lucky so far and always missed it :P


Discovering what this does certainly won't be fun... although I'm unsure if it has been changed recently.

I agree with Bloggorus, making the rules of a game transparent is never a bad thing.
The satisfaction comes from using the rules in ones favour instead of from not getting randomly punished for things you don't know about.
Is it explicitly mentiond at all that you get a penalty for desecration? Or is it just "your god will be upset", which could effectively mean anything? Because this way, there may be players that don't get the connection between the punishment and the desecration, which may be confusing. Explaining what desecration does beforehand would solve this, too.

I have to look some desecrations up in the wiki every now and then, and this isn't fun either.
Last edited by Fran on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Leotamer on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:32 am

I don't think I ever won "JJ gamble'", as my fav. deity, it isn't bad, anyone else, avoid like the plague.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Blovski on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:57 am

I actually think it'd be better to have the piety log tell you what happened rather than warning you in advance. I think a bit of trial and error is a good thing.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:24 am

For what it's worth, I got thinking about this from this article: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/08/its-mu ... uttons-do/

Basically, we underestime the importance of transparency, tooltips and things which explain what you are doing when you are doing it in games.

The article discusses rogue-likes and old school games which require memorising rules and lore of a game before even playing it. It compares them to something like Civ 5, which what is probably the greatest UI ever created. It is so intuitive and explanatory that you can literally pick it up and play without a single manual and tutorial.

Modern gamers have come to expect that kind of thing, and find anything else frustrating.

I'm not saying that DD has to do this, it has strong roots in rogue-likes with many complex unknown rules, but modern audiences expect a certain kind of transparency. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely NO reference to the effects of desecration either before or after you trigger it.

It could be as simple as having your game 'learn' the effects; once you trigger it, it gets recorded for future reference.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Nandrew on Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:02 am

We've spoken often before about the "Codex" that we want to bring in towards the end of the dev process, before mainstream release. It will ideally embody the "learn as you play" approach that requires players to take risks on first-time activities.

Right now, most deliberate game "vagueness" surrounds the gods, and they aren't an element that's introduced very early.

Given the nature of most of the god puzzles, players should have a well-padded Codex just from a basic playthrough of them.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Lujo on Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:36 pm

If you need help with the writing for the codex, I'm up for the job. I seem to get most of the references in Dredmor, am a semi-professional writer (in my own language, but still), and even though I like the writing and humor so far, filling the damned thing out might be really daunting. Yes, I seem to misspell stuff a lot on the forums, but the only reason I'm not contributing to TV tropes was that I started using more and more of my free time to play this game :D

Only question from my side would be if you want "flavour" text in there at all, or just basic stats and stuff?
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Darvin on Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:21 pm

Well, as far as a fan-maintained codex goes, the Wiki is already there. If the devs wanted to take from somewhere, they'd probably do so from the Wiki.
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Re: Tiny Addition

Postby Lujo on Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:48 pm

True that, for some reason I thought everything would have an amusing quite Dredmor style. And they set the bar a bit high.

EDIT: Figured the reason out - if it's gona be vague at first and have the actual data on stuff need unlocking, then just about everything needs an obtuse/vague/silly quote. Dredmor takes this up to 11 with not actually providing in game info for several games woth of effects. Except the silly quotes.
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