Darvin wrote:Binlor isn't bad either for an Orc Rogue. Try PISORF-PISORF-PISORF-Stoneskin-hit-hit; it's piety neutral, you survive the first hit with temporary resistances and then follow up with a first strike. Probably won't carry you in vicious, but playing purist in hard difficulty it's nice since you only need to find one thing to make the combo work: Binlor.
Anyways, you're totally right that Rogues migrated from CYDSTEPP'ing to HP stacking, and you haven't even mentioned the Alchemist's Scroll (though now that it requires gold to activate it's just got a few too many constraints to make it locker worthy unless you really like Rogues or Priests). The thing is, without stacking elaborate combos the Rogue is just really hard to work with, and is subject to absolutely massive swings in damage output due to being such a glass cannon.
Or is it that the vicious dungeons have gotten a lot easier? Hmm.
I'm trying to think of what features of a (vicious) dungeon (or at least Namtar and the Matron) really hurt an HP-stacking Rogue, and am coming up blank.
I've never been much of a fan of the potion-consuming items, mainly because I'm not very good at figuring out when to use potions except by saving them all for the very end
These days the Warlord is a poor-mans CYDSTEPP rogue, except that's like saying "a poor man's jumbo jet".
Darvin wrote:Or is it that the vicious dungeons have gotten a lot easier? Hmm.
With the exception of Demonic Library (which is absolutely insane), yes they have gotten easier. Even Gaan-Telet has been toned down with Horatio losing his mana burn property.
In theory Death Gaze should punish HP stackers, but in practice at vicious-level this rarely is an issue since everything hits so hard that that it doesn't actually end up being a big deal.
Lujo wrote:1) I have a feeling that getting rid of rougue's HP disadvantage is a lot easier for the rogue than matching his advantages would be for any other character.
Someone ought to figure out a math formula for illustrating just how powerfull that is. For a usefull comparison standpoint, it translates to having a resource free DP per monster or a free dodge per monster. It only works as a last hit on a monster but with rogues huge damage, it's mostly a non-issue.
3) GETINDARE giving dode prediction makes the Rogue more powerfull as it means more free powerfull hits. Dode with and without prediction are two very different things, and dodge prediction allows for major efficneciy boosts.
Blovski wrote:Also, on the rogue discussion - probably my favourite class since I'm pretty impatient with regen-fighting, definitely one of the most powerful in situations with sane monster-spawning. Counter-balanced by the fact that you *have* to make up a huge amount of health to deal with a lot of regular bosses, any first-strikers, level-catapulting etc. It's a lot easier to find yourself at the end of magma mines or at firstborn or Slime-Goo in an unwinnable situation as a Rogue than with a lot of other characters.
A boss with high HP, low attack, and death gaze might do it - Super Meat Medusa? - but that would punish just about any Rogue strategy. Or be easily beaten with damage reduction, in which case you'd also need to add curse, at which point you're screwing pretty much everyone (maybe add fast regen to counter regen tactics, plus Counter Fireball to counter fireballs, and we'll go ahead and surround the boss with water tiles just so PISORF isn't an option either).
JJ in particular is so finicky that you either have to find him right away or convert in from Mystera or Binlor with the 45 piety for Petition.
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