Some Thoughts on Deities
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:06 pmWell, with the deity puzzles finalized I realize that very little - if anything - will be done at this point. That said, I'd like to make a few comments on a couple deities in the hopes to at least bring attention to a couple issues that I consider outstanding. I suspect starting piety (since it does not come into play in puzzles) is probably one of the few places where we could see some tweaking, so where possible I'll focus my attention there with regards to deities that just need a little push one way or another.
Binlor Ironshield
This guy could use some starting piety. He's always had a problem where his lifetime piety generation is related to the number of unexplored tiles available, so giving him some starting piety based on the number of tiles already explored might be an idea (similar to alpha pactmaker). This would mean late joinees (which have precious little remaining exploration space) could just grab boons immediately.
Glowing Guardian
I find GG's starting piety is much too generous for low-level joinees, and not nearly generous enough for mid or high-level joinees. Making the curve a little more steep to represent just how much benefit an early-worship is to GG would be appreciated. Alternately, It'd be nice if people who join directly get retroactive credit for their level-up multiplier. For instance, a 3rd level character who joins GG directly (no conversion) should get 9 piety on his next level-up rather than 3, just as if he'd joined as a 1st level character. GG already wildly favours getting in the door at the 1st level, so more flexibility to higher-level joinees would be welcome flexibility.
Also, anyone else thinking that cleansing should get a piety cost decrease? I'm thinking 5 might be entirely reasonable given that prayer beads limits its repeatability.
Mystera Annur
Weakening costs way too much piety. That is all.
EDIT: Some good discussion on Mystic Balance and Refreshment on page 2-3. General consensus that Refreshment is a bit too good, and Mystic Balance is a bit too expensive.
Pactmaker
Spirit Pact and Alchemist Pact could use a little love. I haven't touched the Spirit Pact since the Orc got changed; it's just way too expensive for what it does. I mean, just consider that for a 10th level dwarf this represents 40 piety for 10 HP. The warrior's pact works out to 30 piety for 10 HP, and that's not level-dependent or race dependent (with most races you usually prefer benefits to complement your racial bonus, not compound it). I'd say that this boon's power should be doubled to +20 for -5.
Alchemist Pact just packs little punch for what it is, and the tricky part is that since it works out to less than a full level-up it could end up being outright useless. Most comically, the true alchemist-style items encourage early potion use which makes this pact useless. What if it gave XP and gold for a potion quaff? That would make it a little more interesting without increasing its power directly. We could really use more divine sources of gold income, anyways, and it works thematically.
Jehora Jeheyu
Something needs to be done about the brick wall that Petition represents. JJ needs 65 piety before you even get your first real boon, and you need lifetime piety generation around 200 to even consider joining him. This means that only characters who are extremely confident they can quickly build very large sums of piety will ever consider JJ as a potential god, very few people will even consider joining or converting once the map is mostly explored, and more often than not the altar gets completely ignored. Furthermore, Last Chance is a bit too chancy so few people are willing to convert in for it. In fact, I more often convert out after chaos avatar than spin the roulette wheel on a last chance.
I've long argued that health drain and mana burn should be removed from JJ's list of punishments. This would make it possible for high-level characters to live with his punishments and actually make playing without petition a viable approach. As it stands, these two effects are game-enders in a post-exploration context and it makes playing sans-petition impossible. This would give JJ two flexible approaches; the petition approach that works well for early-worshippers, and the non-petition approach that works best for those going in late.
For Last Chance, I'd really like the boon to do something on failure. Paying piety and having nothing happen is anticlimatic and disappointing. So here's an alternative: he always grants you the full heal and full mana restore, but has a random chance (less piety, worse your chance) of invoking one of the eight desecration penalties. The lower your piety, the more his odds are weighted towards the more catastrophic penalties.
I know this section on JJ is more than the minor tweaks and piety adjustments that I'm talking about for the other gods, but I really feel that Jehora needs adjustment prior to the final release.
Binlor Ironshield
This guy could use some starting piety. He's always had a problem where his lifetime piety generation is related to the number of unexplored tiles available, so giving him some starting piety based on the number of tiles already explored might be an idea (similar to alpha pactmaker). This would mean late joinees (which have precious little remaining exploration space) could just grab boons immediately.
Glowing Guardian
I find GG's starting piety is much too generous for low-level joinees, and not nearly generous enough for mid or high-level joinees. Making the curve a little more steep to represent just how much benefit an early-worship is to GG would be appreciated. Alternately, It'd be nice if people who join directly get retroactive credit for their level-up multiplier. For instance, a 3rd level character who joins GG directly (no conversion) should get 9 piety on his next level-up rather than 3, just as if he'd joined as a 1st level character. GG already wildly favours getting in the door at the 1st level, so more flexibility to higher-level joinees would be welcome flexibility.
Also, anyone else thinking that cleansing should get a piety cost decrease? I'm thinking 5 might be entirely reasonable given that prayer beads limits its repeatability.
Mystera Annur
Weakening costs way too much piety. That is all.
EDIT: Some good discussion on Mystic Balance and Refreshment on page 2-3. General consensus that Refreshment is a bit too good, and Mystic Balance is a bit too expensive.
Pactmaker
Spirit Pact and Alchemist Pact could use a little love. I haven't touched the Spirit Pact since the Orc got changed; it's just way too expensive for what it does. I mean, just consider that for a 10th level dwarf this represents 40 piety for 10 HP. The warrior's pact works out to 30 piety for 10 HP, and that's not level-dependent or race dependent (with most races you usually prefer benefits to complement your racial bonus, not compound it). I'd say that this boon's power should be doubled to +20 for -5.
Alchemist Pact just packs little punch for what it is, and the tricky part is that since it works out to less than a full level-up it could end up being outright useless. Most comically, the true alchemist-style items encourage early potion use which makes this pact useless. What if it gave XP and gold for a potion quaff? That would make it a little more interesting without increasing its power directly. We could really use more divine sources of gold income, anyways, and it works thematically.
Jehora Jeheyu
Something needs to be done about the brick wall that Petition represents. JJ needs 65 piety before you even get your first real boon, and you need lifetime piety generation around 200 to even consider joining him. This means that only characters who are extremely confident they can quickly build very large sums of piety will ever consider JJ as a potential god, very few people will even consider joining or converting once the map is mostly explored, and more often than not the altar gets completely ignored. Furthermore, Last Chance is a bit too chancy so few people are willing to convert in for it. In fact, I more often convert out after chaos avatar than spin the roulette wheel on a last chance.
I've long argued that health drain and mana burn should be removed from JJ's list of punishments. This would make it possible for high-level characters to live with his punishments and actually make playing without petition a viable approach. As it stands, these two effects are game-enders in a post-exploration context and it makes playing sans-petition impossible. This would give JJ two flexible approaches; the petition approach that works well for early-worshippers, and the non-petition approach that works best for those going in late.
For Last Chance, I'd really like the boon to do something on failure. Paying piety and having nothing happen is anticlimatic and disappointing. So here's an alternative: he always grants you the full heal and full mana restore, but has a random chance (less piety, worse your chance) of invoking one of the eight desecration penalties. The lower your piety, the more his odds are weighted towards the more catastrophic penalties.
I know this section on JJ is more than the minor tweaks and piety adjustments that I'm talking about for the other gods, but I really feel that Jehora needs adjustment prior to the final release.
