IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby Lujo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:48 pm

The Avatar wrote:One exp is fine. It's great if it was a level 1 popcorn, but gets steadily worse the stronger the popcorn.


Instead of the +1XP for slowed?

I also wouldn't mind the gold reward - there is not "gold" glyph I'm aware of, might be a nice niche for IMAWAL, plus, youre turning stuff into minerals, why not metal? Also wouldn't stack with gloves of midas, since you'd get the gold piece after you smash the statue.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby The Avatar on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:04 pm

Probably instead, but I could see it working in addition. It would need testing.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby Bloggorus on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:46 am

Lujo wrote:Dear god, I'm not sure if this would be feasable, but...

What if "heroic vandalism" rewarded you with 1 XP or 1 Gold per non-plant statue?


I like the reference, although the amount of gold in dungeons is already used as a hard cap on certain items.

The way I see it, back when everyone was discussing IMAWAL the main gripe was that there are very few instances where creating more walls and making a dungeon tighter is worth the EXP trade-off.

This is still the case, and I would argue that the changes that were implemented are not effective.

Unless anyone actually uses the ability to spawn walls wherever you like, I have found extra no use for it and would much rather spend the mana on another fireball, for instance. I use it as little as I used to; basically never.

So we are back to square one. IMAWAL is prettier (with statues!) but little else, and I thought making the statues breakable would add some dynamism and depth to the glyph.

It also 'makes sense' that you should be able to break them, and it's disappointing when you cant.

Another alternative might be to simply make them movable. Apply a status effect which knocks them back when you hit them. You could knock statues through walls and into other monsters!

Then IMAWAL could be very interesting, especially for Binlor followers; take a big hit of piety for the chance to destroy some walls and make it back.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby The Avatar on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:24 am

That's weird. It's knock back for everyone, yet you're kicking the walls. I like the 1 exp heroic vandalism and the current ability to spawn walls.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby Bloggorus on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:43 am

The Avatar wrote:That's weird. It's knock back for everyone, yet you're kicking the walls. I like the 1 exp heroic vandalism and the current ability to spawn walls.


I'm yet to find any times where i might *need* to spawn walls though. Do you have any examples?

Another way of putting it might be that statues become walls that are affected by knockback, ie. a statue version of cowardly.

Make it so you can 'whack' statues into place, much like the trolls in The New World subdungeon. Imagine lining up a huge row of statues behind the boss and knocking him through them?

It's either that or breakable statues, although I don't see why you would need to have anything 'come' from the staue at all.

It would just be nice to have the option, especially as if you decide to go IMAWAL-heavy as your main catapulting option, you run the serious risk of walling yourself in, literally.

At the moment i am too afraid to use IMAWAL in all but the most open maps, even though I like the idea of the glyph.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby q 3 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:32 am

There's basically two reasons to create a wall out of nothing: (1) you need extra walls for Binlor's boons; (2) you need walls to smack a monster into with knockback/PISORF. Except in very limited circumstances for the latter (basically as a knockback-optimized Half-Dragon or Orc Wizard) you're doing that before battle, not during. That is, you spam walls in convenient locations while you explore, then stop once you start to fight, so it's not like you're spending mana on IMAWAL that you could be spending on BURNDAYRAZ.

It's a niche use to be sure, but I don't think it was meant as a panacea; it's just a (to me) intuitive alternative use for a glyph that has lost a lot of its usefulness as of late. (Lower XP bonuses make the +50% less valuable, and greater ability to get XP and other goodies from popcorn make the cost of petrifying them more prohibitive.) Given that the devs seem to be past the point of major changes, I think more subtle tweaks are probably the best suggestions. E.g., reduce the MP cost a bit, increase the XP bonus, maybe a buff to wall-knockback or statue-knockback versus monster-knockback (going from 25% damage when knocking into a monster versus 50% into a wall, to 50% into a monster and 60% into a wall has made walls a lot less important for knockback strategies, especially when you have two or more monsters to kill anyway).
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby Darvin on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:55 pm

These are my suggestions for the three glyphs I feel need attention right now:

IMAWAL: grant a small amount of CP for converting an XP-granting target, proportional to its level.

CYDSTEPP: Reduce mana cost. Warlords pay additional mana (ie, the current cost) when not at full health.

WONAFYT: the summoned monster is reduced to 66% health (bosses are immune to this effect)
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby The Avatar on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:40 pm

Wow. Then WONAFYT would be a SUPER popcorn bowl. You could use it on stuff up to level 5 or 6 and get away with it. Maybe even more!

I don't know about CP. Lujo has demonstrated how brokenly out of control it can get.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby Darvin on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Wow. Then WONAFYT would be a SUPER popcorn bowl. You could use it on stuff up to level 5 or 6 and get away with it. Maybe even more!

Actually, I intended it to lower current HP, not max HP, so they'd be able to heal if you explored after summoning them. However, I suppose with tamer numbers (say 80%) reducing max HP also works. They're not worth bonus XP, and the glyph is absolutely horrible in the late-game as it stands, so that could work well. Might qualify as a bit too extreme, though...

I don't know about CP. Lujo has demonstrated how brokenly out of control it can get.

Stacking Orcs are history, so I don't think we have serious CP concerns. I feel it needs to grant some type of resource since you're giving up valuable popcorn.
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Re: IMAWAL solution: Make statues breakable

Postby The Avatar on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:52 pm

I suppose, but it all depends on the numbers. You could get some runaway potion strats.
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