Allergies

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Re: Allergies

Postby The Avatar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:13 pm

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if it had costed 10 seeing its use and CP value.
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Re: Allergies

Postby q 3 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:45 pm

The problem with a cost increase is that it makes the item significantly less desirable for its actual effect, which was underwhelming to begin with. Unless it gets a secondary effect or a boost to like 3 or 4 bonus xp, my vote would also be to reduce the cost to 10 gold (or even less), with CP equivalent to items of around that same price.
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Re: Allergies

Postby Darvin on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:22 pm

I wouldn't push up its effect. The big problem is that this item works quite well if you get it at level 1, where it lets you level up quickly without expending significant amount of exploration space. However, you're very unlikely to actually find it that early to take advantage of that sweet spot, which is the item's primary problem. A secondary effect could work, but I don't think the devs will go for that at this stage.
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Re: Allergies

Postby Blovski on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:10 pm

Hard GT loadsa fun - not played it since the GT changes
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Re: Allergies

Postby Wargasm on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:30 am

I think what's basically being said is that the Balanced Dagger is the item version of WONAFYT: If you don't find it very early (at level 1, with minimal exploration, preferably before your first kill) it's pretty much useless. Is there a way to increase the chance of it being in the store closest to where the player spawns? Then an 18 cost might be acceptable. It's an item with a very narrow lifespan, because 1) it's never better than a Yendor you can afford/steal to get, 2) it's never better than fighting anything two or more levels higher, so even if you get it at level 1, if by level 3 you can kill 5's, it's already lost it's useful life after 4 kills, and 3) at 15-18 gold, you're giving up a Schadenfreude potion, Strength potion, Helm of Heroes, Whurrgarbl, or similarly strong item, or in many levels, putting yourself just out of range of things like Dwarven Gauntlets + Vampiric Sword (or affording Yendor itself!)

It's in some cases very handy, especially for classes that can have trouble killing above their level, particularly on vicious - which leaves it in the unfortunate spot of being the kind of thing you'd be best off using as a preparation, but being far too narrow to give up a precious locker slot for. I'd have to have something like 10 to 12 lockers before I could spare a space for something I'd only prep for things like a Vampire in VHoS or something.

I mean if it's intended to be a very narrow item, then that's fine, but if it's going to be that narrow and people aren't using it as much as you'd expect, those are probably the reasons why. Even under optimal conditions of finding it, it's only good in most cases for an extremely narrow time span and somewhat pricey for that. Compare to the Bloody Sigil which is also useful only at low levels, but costs 8 and converts for 45.
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Re: Allergies

Postby Darvin on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:54 am

Compare to the Bloody Sigil which is also useful only at low levels, but costs 8 and converts for 45.

Bloody Sigil actually remains fairly competitive even well into your higher levels thanks to the bonus health regeneration and the fact that its penalty was toned back a few versions ago. It's a superb item that's totally out of the Balanced Dagger's league. Works great for casters if you combo it with BLUDTUPOWA, too.

As I've said for a long time, the Balanced Dagger is an extremely interesting item that's exceedingly impractical. It'd be a shame to leave it in its current state, but it increasingly is looking like that's how it's going to end up.
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Re: Allergies

Postby Wargasm on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:12 am

Yeah, I should have specified that it has great use at low levels, but limited use at higher levels except to Monks and a few other particular strategies, which is about on par with the Dagger, except at a much lower price for similar CP. The dagger looks a lot better than it is in practise most of the time, though.
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Re: Allergies

Postby Darvin on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:48 pm

Well, after playing with the "petrify for gold" thing for a while, I'd have to say there are a couple things I don't like about it. First of all, to take advantage of it in the first place you need to have some form of wall breaking (most likely ENDISWAL). I feel if anything IMAWAL needs to be made less dependent on wall breaking, since it's already a very prone to creating dungeon clogs. Second of all, there's something quaint about leaving monster statues scattered around the dungeon and having incentive to smash them just doesn't sit well with me.

I'd prefer the gold to appear in an adjacent tile (or just be automatically given to the player) rather than appearing underneath the statue itself.
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Re: Allergies

Postby harfatum on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:15 pm

Darvin wrote:I'd prefer the gold to appear in an adjacent tile (or just be automatically given to the player) rather than appearing underneath the statue itself.

What about making statues pushable?
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Re: Allergies

Postby Wargasm on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:34 pm

Whee, block puzzles for all!
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