Bring back the platemail?

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Bring back the platemail?

Postby Tukituki1234 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:50 pm

As much as I realize that the platemail may have been a bit too powerful before the Slow debuff (for Veterans at lest, not myself), now i think the platemail is rediculously under-powered especially for the fighter gold challenge. I feel as if i don't even want to attempt the fighter anymore, and i don't understand why the platemail received that large of a debuff. Any feedback about why this happened or how I can do better on my slow fighter would be greatly appreciated! Would there be any way that this action would be undone?
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Darvin on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:28 pm

I think the platemail nerf was chosen more thematically than anything. The slow effect works beautifully from the conceptual point of view, but it certainly was an overnerf.

Platemail was definitely far too powerful in its earlier form, and there was little reason to prepare anything else. That on its own means drastic action was justified. It's now a below-average item and not really locker worthy, but it's still decent and I do purchase it in-dungeon, particularly for taking down monsters like meatmen.

Really, if you're been around long enough, the same thing happened to the venom sword, trisword, dragonshield, mage plate, and avatar's symbol. They all had it coming, and some of them are still quite powerful in spite of drastic nerfs, and they will certainly never see their former glory.
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Blovski on Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:51 pm

IIRC some of the forumites suggested slow as a debuff?

I'd rather have just seen the effect reduced a bit. Then again, Slow's tied to the RBS as well, which is much weaker than Platemail...
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby q 3 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:19 pm

Eh, I still find the Platemail to be one of the most valuable purchases in a dungeon, far more desirable in most cases than, say, the health pendant or the venom dagger. You just have to figure out when to buy it; pick it up after you've cleared out all the monsters that can inflict debuffs and it's hardly a penalty at all.

As a prep, sure, it's fairly mediocre, but then again most shop items are mediocre preps. (And it can still be devastatingly powerful as a prep if you build your strategy around it.) It probably could stand to be modified a bit to be more useful at low levels - say, giving +3 DR per level with a cap of 20, or something like a flat +15 DR regardless of level. Buff the RBS a bit, say to 35% or 40% pierce, and you'll have a pretty sweet combo. (It would also be handy if there were some way of acquiring the RBS other than as a blacksmith prep; I'd be thrilled to have it as a shop item.)
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Darvin on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:22 pm

IIRC some of the forumites suggested slow as a debuff?

That would be me. I'd still say it's more balanced now than it was before, going from much too strong to moderately weak.

The platemail is currently in the "below average" list of items in the game. Not locker worthy, but definitely worth using in the right situation. Its biggest problem is more that quest items seem to have a low chance of appearing in shop unless you specifically pick the quest item shop prep.

I'd much rather platemail be buffed by re-examining the slow status. As has already been mentioned, slow is unique to platemail and RBS, and the platemail is unambiguously the stronger of the two items. I think a good start is making slowed monsters strike after slowed players so WEYTWUT properly functions (it's currently a little ridiculous that 3 mana GETINDARE overcomes the slow penalty while 8 mana WEYTWUT does not)

EDIT: wouldn't mind trying q3's suggestion of boosting it to 3 DR per level, either.
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Tukituki1234 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:16 pm

I'm sorry if I sound like I know nothing about this game and all of it's various strategies, but i really don't. I realize that the 2dr per level may have been overpowered but I still wasn't able to even get close to the Trisword. Now that this debuff is there, I'm that much further away. Any suggestions on how to overcome this would be greatly appreciated as I would love to be able to use the trisword. I also like the idea of the 3dr or the flat 15.

On a completely different note, any suggestions on how to obtain the battlemage ring? I can't seem to beat it with any classes =( Im a complete noob I know haha
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Darvin on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:08 pm

I would love to be able to use the trisword.

The key to Warlord Silver is the Earthmother. Use IMAWAL to petrify the goat revenants and then her entanglement boon to allow you to first strike the others. As with Hexx Ruins, focus on killing a few stronger enemies rather than many weaker enemies to avoid creating too many revenants at once.

flat 15.

Flat 15 would make it too strong at low levels.

On a completely different note, any suggestions on how to obtain the battlemage ring? I can't seem to beat it with any classes =( Im a complete noob I know haha

Easiest non-class dependent way to beat the Magma Mines is fireball spamming. Play as an elf, prep crystal ball and the fireball magnet, and focus on damage-spiking with fireballs. If you find a glyph of BLUDTUPOWA you're pretty much set. Assassins, Wizards, Sorcerers, Bloodmages, and Fighters all excel at this approach.
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Nandrew on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:01 am

Darvin wrote:
I would love to be able to use the trisword.

The key to Warlord Silver is the Earthmother. Use IMAWAL to petrify the goat revenants and then her entanglement boon to allow you to first strike the others. As with Hexx Ruins, focus on killing a few stronger enemies rather than many weaker enemies to avoid creating too many revenants at once.


This. Warlord silver is one of those maps which can be toppled much more easily with the right approach (most of the challenges actually have implicitly suggested combos to help them along), so understanding the "trick" should help you get a hold of the Trisword without too much trouble.

Considering adding a "suggested gods" field to some of the challenge dungeons, though admittedly some of the levels are built with explicitly "unrecommended" gods, so meh.
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Re: Bring back the platemail?

Postby Fran on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:35 am

Nandrew wrote:Considering adding a "suggested gods" field to some of the challenge dungeons, though admittedly some of the levels are built with explicitly "unrecommended" gods, so meh.


You could make a "hints" option on the challenges where you pay a gold fee to have a good item / diety / things to avoid revealed. That should help players that are stuck on their way without taking the difficulty as long as you don't reveal all you need to know.
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