Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:07 pm

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Greetings:

I am a bit methodical, so I move slow. I will add new posts to this thread as I go along.
When I have played further I can begin to analyze game difficulty and balancing issues.

After some conversation with QCF administration I have made some changes to my post format to make it easier to "digest".
All bugs or errors (at least things that seem like they could be such to me) will be first, and always be in bold.
Also, all new updates will appear in their own post, and not be included in the main post.

MeVII


Notes from play time Aug 8th 2011

- General Notes -
None.

- Errors -

4-72-19. Taurog granted an initial 284 piety. Im sure that’s not right.
4-78-20. There were several wraiths in a level before they were triggered by the guild expansion.


- Questions -
4-75-7. Im no good at math. Who’s stronger, the human with his +10%, or the Orc at +1 per? I presume its the orc.

- Ideas -

4-73-39. Yes, we all think its fun, but should we really be able to use two swords, and a shield? Recommend either setting physical slots to “R-Hand, L-Hand, Head etc…” or make all physical items anatomically irrelevant. Eg. Amulets, rings, brooches, pins, gems, crystals, auras, blessings, fetishes, trophies, tattoos etc…
4-74-40. When the Halfling awarded me with the “Viper Ward”, I spent some time wondering where it was, before I realized it was now just available in shops.
4-76-41. Do you get the gold value of items on the ground if you do not have the space to carry them in your inventory? If not, consider that if ALL creatures in a level have been killed you receive gold value for all items (not shops naturally) on the ground in the level. The idea is since it was totally cleared, you could take your time retrieving all the treasure.
4-77-42. Could the cost for lockering items be displayed in the locker screen?
MeVII
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby Galefury on Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:26 pm

Whether orc or human gets you higher damage depends on class and god choice. First off, orcs don't get +1 damage per conversion, they get +1, then +2 (total +3), then +3 (total +6), and so on. A monk, who starts off at -50% damage will benefit more from the +10% (unless you get a huge amount of conversion points), a berserker, who starts off at +30% damage, will benefit more from the orc bonus. Also getting extra base damage is better at low levels (when monster HP are low), percentage damage is better at high levels (when base damage is high).
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:34 pm

-

Greetings:

I am a bit methodical, so I move slow. I will add new posts to this thread as I go along.
When I have played further I can begin to analyze game difficulty and balancing issues.

After some conversation with QCF administration I have made some changes to my post format to make it easier to "digest".
All bugs or errors (at least things that seem like they could be such to me) will be first, and always be in bold.
Also, all new updates will appear in their own post, and not be included in the main post.

MeVII


Notes from play time Aug 17th 2011

- General Notes -
Life has delayed me from giving input at a faster pace.

- Errors -

5-79-21. Quest difficulty appears on the map but not in the tavern quest descriptions.
5-80-22. After selecting, and casting or canceling the [fireball] spell, a fragment of the SFX continues to play at intervals of approximately 1 second.
5-82-23. The 1st sentence text for Weakening extends past the right border.
5-83-24. Mana Leak only effects creatures on screen, making it null if the alter is in a sub dungeon.


Mysteria Annur

5-87-1. Mysteria Annur could have an ability that randomizes all glyphs currently in the dungeon.
5-88-2. I personally do not like M.A. because all races gain the majority of their conversion points (and thus racial bonuses) by the converting of glyphs, something M.A. does not tolerate. This puts an odd paradox into play for M.A. and magic users like the elf or gnome, as they cannot feed their racial bonus and keep M.A. happy.
5-89-2.2. Consider an ability for M.A. that … sacrifices glyphs directly to HER. So for a piety cost, you give her magic back to her, you gain your conversion bonus, and she dosent get angry at the action.
5.90.2.3 … allow for the sacrifice of health, attack bonus, attack, or health potions directly to M.A. for conversion points (or double in the case of health potions.)
5.91.2.4. Bottom line, In my opinion, M.A. would do well to have some way for races like the Elf and Gnome to take advantage of their racial bonuses without making her angry at the conversion of glyphs.
5.92.3. I would tweak Mana Leak to be something more of a “Vicarious Casting”. Whereas M.A. would consume your MP (all of it even?), and herself cast a levl 10 (or higher?) “fireball” on whatever creature you last attacked. As it stands now its to easily abused, as it is a powerful ability.
5.93.4. To me it seems obvious that M.A.s pacifist tendencies are excuses to balance her deity gifts. It made more sense in the Alpha when the drawbacks were more focused on forcing you to become dependent on magic, by reducing HP, ATTK etc… I would go as so far that making a physical attack cost piety. M.A. as the god of magic should hate physical effort, be obsessed with magic, and not care at all how you use it.

- Questions -

5-86-8. Is Mysteria Annur meant to give out “starting piety” when first worshiped? Ive never gotten any yet.

- Ideas -

5-81-43. Could auto bonuses have the option of being converted for a small amount of conversion points? Many an elvin mage would sacrifice an attack bonus for 5 more CP.
5-84-44. An option to “restart dungeon” could be added next to “retire” at dungeon exit. This would cut down on the clicks it takes to exit and reenter a dungeon, if you intend to use the same race and class.
5-85-44.2. Restarting a dungeon either could or could not be re-randomly generated, depending on many variables.
5-95-45. It would be fun if there was some way/thing in the game that changed your race, or your class, or both … IN a dungeon.
5-96-46. Could creature abodes (Human, Elf, Dwarf etc...) be upgraded past lev 1, that would allow for either the addition of another racial bonus, or an improvement to their current one?

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MeVII
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby q 3 on Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:04 pm

MeVII wrote:5-81-43. Could auto bonuses have the option of being converted for a small amount of conversion points? Many an elvin mage would sacrifice an attack bonus for 5 more CP.
5-84-44. An option to “restart dungeon” could be added next to “retire” at dungeon exit. This would cut down on the clicks it takes to exit and reenter a dungeon, if you intend to use the same race and class.


Those are both really good ideas. The bonuses could be small items that you can pick up and then consume or convert as needed (heck, I'd like it just for the ability to not consume the MP bonuses until after taking Taurog's boons and then converting to someone else).
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby 232 on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:47 am

MeVII wrote:-
5-84-44. An option to “restart dungeon” could be added next to “retire” at dungeon exit. This would cut down on the clicks it takes to exit and reenter a dungeon, if you intend to use the same race and class.
5-85-44.2. Restarting a dungeon either could or could not be re-randomly generated, depending on many variables.
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I like the sound of this, but it'd have to be randomly generated each time as per the second part of your idea, otherwise you could pick up all the important stuff on the map while not wasting any tiles for regen or other purposes.
232
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:47 am

Greetings:

I should not have left that at "depending on variables", because when that comes to me, thats not explaining much.
Allow me to expound on what I meant ...
First off, I agree with the fact that a dungeon should not be identically replicated as the default standard, as that could (and would) be abused in a hoard of ways.
What I was implying was "variables" such as these...
a. A special skill called scouting that allows, a "reset" of the same dungeon. So the character would not get gold or get to keep items, but be able to reattempt the exact same dungeon. This level of identical reproduction, I think, should be limited to only 1 retry attempt.
b. The walls, or the physical design of the level is the same, but the monsters move. As the dungeon has not "changed", but naturally creatures move and etc... Perhaps if you buy a "map" of the dungeon, or a special mapping skill.
c. An instant reattempt option, every thing is randomized, and the same race same class is placed back at the start for a dungeon reattempt. Purely a game function.
d. Then there can be a random regeneration that allows for the keeping of gold and items, perhaps an ability called "looting".

The general idea that I was getting at, was any number of creative exceptions can be used to license differing degrees of dungeon reattempt options.

MeVII

232 wrote:
MeVII wrote:-
5-84-44. An option to “restart dungeon” could be added next to “retire” at dungeon exit. This would cut down on the clicks it takes to exit and reenter a dungeon, if you intend to use the same race and class.
5-85-44.2. Restarting a dungeon either could or could not be re-randomly generated, depending on many variables.
-


I like the sound of this, but it'd have to be randomly generated each time as per the second part of your idea, otherwise you could pick up all the important stuff on the map while not wasting any tiles for regen or other purposes.
MeVII
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:17 pm

-

Greetings:

I am a bit methodical, so I move slow. I will add new posts to this thread as I go along.
When I have played further I can begin to analyze game difficulty and balancing issues.

My work has picked up heavy again, so Ive had little time to play.
I believe Im behind the average player in regards to game depth.
However, bringing up the rear guard, much of my input is "Post Beta Updates".

MeVII


Notes from play time Aug 28th 2011

- General Notes -
Ive encountered Bindalor, and my first impression is very poor. Ill give more detailed feedback when I feel I better know what Im talking about, and I have more precise input.
Im also formulating a more global analysis / opinion on the game, pending the same as above.

- Errors -

6-98-25. At the end of the Havendale bridge I received two copies of the “Unstoppable” medal.
6-103-26. In my current game on todays date, there is a grafix error causing visible lines between each individual grid square.


- Balance Issues -

6-100-3. Just a comment, a Taurog worshiping dwarven priest is extremely powerful. Between Taurogs death protection boon, and the full HP on potion consumption, they are almost impossible to kill.
6-104-4. Potions could make a glass or liquid sloshing sound instead of a leathery sound.
6-107-5. The “Fine Sword” is +4, but the Skullpicker, straight from the hands of Taurog himself is only +1 more? +5? I think, either the FS should be reduced to +2, or the Skullpicker instead of being a flat bonus, could be +10%. “Taurogs swords rewards the wielders own strength!”
6-108-6. I killed (quite easily) a lev 7 vampire with a lev 3 taurog worshiping dwarven priest.

- Questions -

6-97-9. Should monks really be able to use swords?

- Ideas -

6-99-47. Can right clicking open the description window for a creature? Otherwise you cannot mouse over their abilities to get the information. Ive mentioned this before, and am dooing so again because it is bordering on necessary to understand the details on some creatures abilities later in the game.
6-101-48. I like the way quest information shows up on the map, a lot. However, there is the important information of “victory requirements” that is not displayed. That is only in the tavern. (Beat boss with a monk, etc…)
6-102-49. Have you considered having the color of the flag designate quest difficulty level?

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MeVII
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby Capitalism Ho! on Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:31 am

6-107-5. The “Fine Sword” is +4, but the Skullpicker, straight from the hands of Taurog himself is only +1 more? +5? I think, either the FS should be reduced to +2, or the Skullpicker instead of being a flat bonus, could be +10%. “Taurogs swords rewards the wielders own strength!”

First of the Fine sword would then have the same stats as the Sword that can be equipped via the blacksmith, mdaking it rather weak, second I thinks the main advantage of the blade is that it is yet another sword, yea I do know we dont ahve 3 hands, but well that's how it works right now. Third: a flat 10% would if make a weaker badge of honor, as the badge also offers one time protection.
I Personally think +5 is fine.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:45 pm

Greetings:

My bottom line is that a sword given to you by a god of battle, should not be only a mere +1 better than a sword you can find laying on a dungeon floor.

I personally strongly endorse weapons limitations. Monks can not use swords, not every class can use two weapons etc... Three swords at once? Fun? Yes. Mechanically it works fine, contextually it does not.
Ive already addressed some ideas to solve that going the opposite direction. Fixing the context instead of the mechanics.

MeVII

Capitalism Ho! wrote:
I Personally think +5 is fine.

Capitalism Ho! wrote:
... yea I do know we dont ahve 3 hands, but well that's how it works right now.
MeVII
 
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby Dunno on Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:26 pm

Um, trisword is +6 damage after two levels already. For your bottom line, would that mean Taurog has to give you a sword with more than +27 damage?

And the fine sword is not a random thing from dungeon floor, it costs 15 gold. That's 15(18-21 counting boon return gold) piety, if we look at TT. Taurog offers his variant for 20 piety.

Would you be satisfied if it wasn't a sword of +5 damage for 20 piety, but a spiked bracelet of +5 damage for 20 piety?

MeVII wrote:6-108-6. I killed (quite easily) a lev 7 vampire with a lev 3 taurog worshiping dwarven priest.

Now kill a lvl 7 slime with the same character. Does balance mean all characters have to be equally effective under any conditions?
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