Waterd103 wrote:You are making the wrong correlation-Causation logic train of thought.
1.I've died quite a bit. and Yes it's more likely rerun if i died that if i actually lost. For several reasons.
Ive pissed off and frustrated when I die, I want to play a full game after it, It didn't even feel like a whole experience, just being cheated. Most of my "deaths" are actually me getting bored on how easy the game is and me spam clicking without thinking just wanting to to move to whatever level is gonna be hard. This is specially hard if im fireballing with a non 5 mana cost fireball, I hotkey click the monster, and i died..forgot fireball cost X more mana.
Well, now you know how much mana fireball costs
Plus there's a bit of broken feedback there: The game didn't tell you that the cast failed (NOT having a fireball cursor effect isn't a strong enough message) that's in our list of stuff to fix. Once we get a cast-fail animation/sound, that should help... Not alleviate the entire problem, but help prevent misclicks.
Waterd103 wrote:A game being great enough (to me it isn't to me it's one of the best ideas for a game ever crushed under a pile of bad design decisions), it doesn't make it immune to criticism, if anything are great games that should be scrutinized more because it means we have something worth improving, instead of some trash game that is just a waste of time.
Don't worry, I totally get that kind of thinking about criticism and I'm flattered that you think so highly of the game. Speaks to the way we handle crits - I like being wrong
The problem is that there's always so much context around this sort of stuff that often it's not about finding the right thing to do for which people, it's figuring out if you even can do any of those things in the first place.
Waterd103 wrote:In fact that is why i'm even bothering posting here. I'm really excited with this game i discovered no more than 3 days ago. Because many of it's ideas are WOW amazing. So this game could be potentially what i consider a great game.
But overall death doesn't make it a rouglike or what not. Death means you have to waste time thinking about decisions that are not important, and sometimes dying because misclick.
We don't think the game is a roguelike because of the death, in fact, that's a pretty poor reason for it to be one in the first place. We think it's a roguelike because the puzzle aspect of the game arises from the random generation rules. We actually have very little way to tell if a specific dungeon run is going to be successful or not as you're playing through it. A dungeon isn't a designed scenario, like the puzzles, it's an interaction between player skill, luck and the rules of the game. I'm not sure if I'm explaining that correctly, but that's what we feel makes the game a roguelike at its core.
Waterd103 wrote:The SC and SF I strongly disagree with both. Fireball motions and Drone controlling doesn't make the game better. Smash brothers doesn't have fireball motions and it works fine, For many people games like Dawn of war 1 are more fun to play because they don't have all that lame drone control. We can talk about why SF or SC are more successfull regardless. But don't trap on the flaw of "if something succeded, EVERTHING that did was the best possible option" Because is just a huge fallacy.
Oh, that's not my assumption at all, I just tend to view games in a greater context. For instance, Super Smash Bros not having massive dexterity gates is a direct result of the way their damage model works. The way damage actually impacts how far you fly when hit changes up so much about fighting game assumptions that I can only assume that dexterity gate motions hampered the enjoyment of playing. Hence why one of the major existing dexterity tests in SSB, throwing items, was duplicated on the c-stick to make it easier. In fact, your whole SSB play-experience changes when you figure out the c-stick interaction, it makes your more powerful moves more reliable (up-smash FTW) and it helps deal with the unfairness of random item drops because any player now has the ability to control more space with accurate throwing. Also, I'm not a huge fan of dexterity gates in fighting games myself, but I can understand what they achieve from a design perspective. Winning with a clutch Ultra is amazing
We can talk about how DoW's downplaying resource micro turned into hero unit micro out in the middle of the map as players tried to extend as far as possible early-game, but that's a whole different discussion (and I know less about DoW, having only watched high-level games, not played it that way myself).
but in the end you're telling the guy who's making a game (or has made the game) that what he wants is, for the lack of a better word, unreasonable or counterproductive
It's in part what i want, in part what i think it's a better design decision
The most boring thing is an easy run, period.
Ive been playing a 2 hours or something and I really lost one or two times, and mostly because i don't take the runs seriously i just jam my way in. Hoping to find the hard runs...so far there are none What runs are easy? Interestingly some of the puzzles are pretty hard. Sadly the only think i have to stop thinking is to not click one more than i want to so i don't die.
It's sad when the the hardest part of the game for the first 2 hours is not misclicking in a game without a clock, the only reason one hurries is to try to escape boredom.
Aha! That sounds like we're not helping to accelerate good players fast enough. Which dungeons have you found so far and have you been doing quests to try and get gold, or do you feel that getting gold isn't helping to push you towards more in-depth gameplay?
I agree there's definitely a mismatch between some players' experience of ingame difficulty and their expectation to not die suddenly to something like a Gorgon or a Goblin taking them down when they're not paying attention. Curse that Goblin Itch... And yes, I can understand how that would indeed be frustrating.