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Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:57 am
by The Avatar
It's because of the new (or relatively new) algorithm. It's been around for awhile though. Basically, it places monsters in choke points.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:22 pm
by Lujo
Well, it's doing a good job of making Cheeky a legit badge rather than an auto thing, and I'm deffinitely getting more of the Alpha vibe in the early dungeon, so I'm not really complaining about it. Venture cave IS more cramped than it used to be, now that you mention, but there is a distinct ease in WONNAFYT popcornbowling in it as opposed to the Den of Danger, which makes the den harder even if you kill slowed lvl1 monsters for your first like I'm doing lately.

I just couldn't thell what the tradeoff in venture cave was, because this piece of assimetry seems create a distinct disparity in favour of the cave. Maybe it's intended, since there are more quests for the Den? I don't know, but it's noticable...

- Puzzle difficulty: Ok, so the Jehora Puzzle pack joins the Halfling one as the only two I had to go look up the solution for so far. For the first one, even. And I can't seem to find it in the puzzle solutions thread. Hmmm... EDIT: I even managed the second one on my own, but can't figure the 1st one out for the life of me... EDIT2: I figured it out. It was easy and straightforward, and so was the second one. It was my inability to predict the exact post-conversion damage numbers and hesitation to experiment with randomly trying stuff out untill something works that made both this pack and the Halfling one hard for me.

- Minor Itch: Am I blind or is there no way to see your quests once you click on a flag on the map? Also, I can't seem to figure out if there's a way to cycle between the badges for a dungeon and the classes you completed them with, and it's getting progressively more annyoing. Maybe I'm just blind. And some of it at least is probably being worked on right now...

- Outdated Feature Reference: The Kingdom Advisor is currently giving me more or less the following advice: "Uprgade the Church building to acquire dungeon scrying abilities". The feature itself is probably being reworked right now, but it's still funny.

- Find Odd: i just desecrated Taurog and he didn't take away his gear. Wonder if it was always like that or not?

- Need to comment: Taurog monks are still a unreal. Seeing how I still haven't unlocked the berserker or the witch, and sort of skipped them on the last run it came as a bit of a shock. Nothing to be worried about I suppose, but as long as the dungeon isn't made with them in mind they really roll ^^

- Like: You can no longer exit Drac's subdungeon after walking into it. I used to abuse this to avoid unlocking him on the minimalist run, and even on the last one.

- Like: Creeplight ruins spawns kingdom element subdungeons in addition to the goat one. Hopefully it's spawning the goat as an extra. I can't remember for Creeplight, but I know that every place which denied you a subdungeon, even a potentially useless one was harder by default (Dragon Isles and Naga City being big offenders). I'm not sure, but I think this was the reason I rarely visited Creeplight outside of quests, which is a shame because it's an interesting one.

- Medium itch: I wen't looking for the witch with the Tinker which was big mistake from the beta testing perspective. Now I have no clue how the Drac subdungeon mandatory unlock affects what would otherwise be a regular Creeplight run, and I suspect it doesn't work out well. It has the run-ruining potential even greater than running into pactmaker because the Pactmaker only denies you a subdungeon (but is more annoying because it happens 3 times).

- Big Like: The Fake Beard subdungeon made me chuckle. The cracked amulet one is strictly better, but this is a lot funnier :) Also, the goat does indeed spawn in addition to a regular subdungeon which makes this a BIG like.

- Big Misgiving: Eh... Found the Witch, like the cat, don't know if I like the quest, but I do have a big gripe with the fact that its both in the east and behind the monk unlock. Reason being, the monk is bloody powerfull, the east is hard enough as it is, the flavour of the witch being east rather than anywhere else never made any sense at all, and the quest itself pops up really early pushing players east way before it's good for them. It also creates a clutter of subdungeons over that way. Since she has quests, and the first one is in the east, why not have her somewhere else, like west, or even south? Might be good reasons for things being this way, but i think reasons for making it otherwise are pretty sensible ones. Or is the witch so gamebreaking that she needs to be behind a really big ass skill wall?

- Broken Puzzle: Drac2: (Nope, it was me being a fool) Whatever happened here made Darvins solution not work. I went to check, and something is plain wrong. Ok, Dravin's solution missed a step where you take Blood Curse, Drac's puzzle pack works as intended. It felt a bit more difficult than the others, but then again, it showcases a lot of his features I rarely ever use / invoke.

- Big Like: Binlor's puzzle pack was fun, well written, open ended to a degree and all-round great.

Getting pretty close to a very deffinite end of the early game, and when there I'll do a summary of the expirience and move on to the midgame. (It may look like I'm knee deep in it right now, but I think I maybe have a few things to sort out still).

- Big Like: - The new Crusader subdungeons, I honestly didn't realize that it was what it was.

- Gameflow Gripe: - The fact that Bank lvl 3 takes place in penultimate HARD dungeon. It's really easy to fill up your 4000 gold from bank lvl2 and be faced with quite a bit of gold overflow if youre taking your time and enjoying the scenery. It pressured me to unlock stuff and use stuff I wasn't really ready for if I just wanted to do a bit of completion on the early puzzles. The "clear out shifting sands" thing feels a bit random from the perspective of a player who's unlocked the quest and has a need for it's reward, and the difficulty spike between it and anything I've encountered so far is quite large.

- Big Like: At some point the dev's must've fixed the fullscreen. It's not fuzzy anymore! And it means less missclicks and eyestrain! Whooo!

- Rogue Gold: Wow, my second Gold Win, and without GETINDARE to boot. Also, the boss drops gloves of Midas, after Silver allready does, so not sure what to make of that. Cool thing is I used a Pactmaker pact, the one which gives health, but if I was smart and picked a Dwarven rogue instead of a Human "just to check the dungeon out and maybe sneak a broken rogue win", that would be THE place to pick up the conversion pact (provided you have other means of picking PISSORFF up). Nice, challenging, pleasant and cool, I liked it.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:46 pm
by Lujo
Wednesday - The Midgame

????? - the Northern Dessert just got confusing. i've had Aequitas as boss in there 3 times in a row, but it said the Goo was the boss. Now I've had the adventure map say it was Aequitas, and it's the Goo. And I wen't in there to do the complicated tasks quest with a dwarven Rogue and Converted BYCEPSS. I whish this got cleared up somehow. I won by running into Binlor, and it's an easy dungeon, but it's pointlessly missleading.

Gameflow ????? - I've only just noticed this, but the 2nd tier directional dungeons (Havendale Bridge, Rock Garden, Creeplight Ruins and Hex Ruins have quests which have no rewards (or if they have them, they aren't listed on the kingdom screen). Maybe they DO have quests tied to tier 3 unlocks but when you approach them it looks weird.

Gameflow Gripe - The South still has the Ick Swamp unlock weirdness, with the subdungeon you have to scum for (or maybe it apears wehrever you go next). Still the assymetry of it and the fact that you end up looking at the slime pits and thinking it's either where you have to go or wondering about what the hell is going in is noticable. Now, if that same mechanic was a part of unlocking every VICIOUS dungeon as opposed to a random tier 3 directional one, it would make sense, this way it doesn't fit.

Like - Transmuter Subdungeon Keyword: "Quest" :D The subdungeon art is a mite excessive, however. If you find it in a darker subdungeon, like the Havendale Bridge and your screen suddenly flashes orange the reaction is "Bleh!" not "Wow".

Like You can't WHEYTWUT the troll in the brigde anymore. Haven't tried PISSORFFING him, but as far as this is concerned I think it's for the best. That troll wasn't getting any respect for a while.

Noticed Havendale Bridge seems to be a good deal harder now, as well. There's fat stuff on the wrong side of the river (well, lvl 5 and 6), and the abilities on the mosters are nasty. I always remember it as being a tricky map, but it feels tough now.

Playthrough ????? I've had a cluster**** of toasts happen after defeating the Havendale Bridge (By coincidence it seems). Magma Mines Minecraft, Transmuter, Bezar lvl 3, and the Taxidermist notes, at least. There seemed to be two identical notes for Bezar lvl 3 but with different tags.

Issue: - The bazzar lvl 3 quest doesn't seem to be counting Translocation scroll use. Or something.

Missclick death no. 2 - Mouse surged forward and had me hit a fat sand troll. After I've killed a lvl 10 at lvl 5. It was a learning expirience, though, I learned that I should go buy a better mouse.

Tinker Bug - While in Hex Ruins for the buyout quest (Bezzar lvl 3), I didn't get a secret walled off dungeon. I thought those were mandatory for the Tinker? Reported in the bug thread.

Noticed: Translocation Scroll - The game doesn't count Translocation Scroll, errr, theft, as buying an item for the Miser badge. Neat little trick for anyone both reading this and wanting an edge over the vets in the very fun Dungeon of the Day events :)

Like: - Avatar apparently does read everthing.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:59 am
by Lujo
Thursday: Yet more midgame

Fun strat - Pactmakers % res (body?) pact kicks ass in Creeplight ruins.

Gameflow Issue - Are there any questchains in Cursed Oasis or Slime Pits? The way it is now ti's not asymetrical per se, because the east and the west have one "complete with 4 people" quest chains, but... The final (?) two complicated tasks quests are in the same place wher those two are. So we have 2 quests in the east and west "side" HARD dungeons, and none (?) in the north and south. Moving the complicated tasks quests would be a headache, but the Fire Heart and the Battlemage Ring could be moved South and North respectively.

Gameflow Issue - It just occured to me that there is a thing about locker slots which might warrant consideration. The way they are distributed now is that you get 3 for unlocking the berserker, and 3 for Warlord, and those two aren't exactly the unlocks you want to rush as far as monsters are concerned, yet unlock the Trisword Challenge, the Unlikely Heroe's questline and the Sensation Stone dungeon. On the flipside, if you don't unlock the berserker right away you have no locker slots. I suppose redistributing the slot unlocks to be 2 + 2 + 2 would allow some item lockering right away (like it used to be), but would let you locker the sensation stone in the midgame. Fewer locker slots - fewer strats people feel really comfortable with, and while asking for more locker slots would be silly, asking for a redistribution probably isn't (to allow more diversity and experimentation in the late early game, and early midgame, especially for the item dependent classes).

Noticed - Berserker Camp has become a lot easier since the last time I did it. Or the time before that, back when you had to be a wizard, and you couldn't prep gods, and the dungeon was harder. It's probably a good thing, allthough a Warmonger Sorcerer maybe shouldn't be this easy. Not sure what to think. If Slime Pits and Cursed oasis have been reduced in difficulty, then moving the "complete with 4" quests over there might be a good idea.

Noticed: Prepping Taurog - I've been doing it a hell of a lot. I think I might've prepped GG once, and nobody else yet, but Taurog is almost auto-prep. Especially since I'm doing so much Tinker, because just prepping him means I can actually beat a dungeon I just went in to grab the subdungeon. With a compression seal, ofc.

Like: Orc - Since I also haven't unlocked the Tri-Sword just yet, I've been using Warmonger Orcs and Humans as a cheap and gold efficent substitute for Halflings. More Glyphs is a nobrainer with Orcs and I like them quite a bit. I've done a few goblins here and there, halflings for the few priest runs I've done, no gnomes whatsoever (no reason to, yet), and a lot of elves early game. Oh, and just about every rogue I've played has been a Dwarf, with possibly one or 2 Orcs (In the challenge dungeons).

Gameflow Issue - The late unlock of the witch, in case someone didn't find the Tinker and isn't comfortable running around Creeplight before its sensible really made the early mid game (as it happened to me) a veritable clusterf*** of quests all over the place. A lot less elegant than the early game, I have to say, and I'm now firm in belief it needs smoothing out.

Subdungeon Weirdness - I just ran into a very weird subdungeon in the magma mines. 3 Piles of gold and a signpost with the message along the lines of "A child who raises a hand against the parent is damned. Leave this place, we keep our eyes out for the children of heathens". Was very confusing, and I guess it's a message from a natre worshipping cult, but it took me a while to figure it out because of the "great western tileset/flavour mashup", or in other words, it felt as weird finding it in magma mines, as did the transmuter subdungeon in havendale bridge.

Re: Complicated Tasks - done it, and now the last thing to unlock from the supporting buildings is the blacksmith, which tells me I'm probably not playing the game as god intended. The quests and dungeons involved were fun and rather easy (compared) and everything about moving the "complete with 4 guys" quests to CO and Slime Pits is currently reinforced in my mind. On the other hand, I now have the "Silly Potion Prep Kit TM" available, which I don't think I'll abuse this time around.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:20 pm
by gjaustin
I'm glad you've finally discovered Body Pact!

I haven't been using it as much lately, but it's pretty sick with Taurog.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:28 pm
by Lujo
gjaustin wrote:I'm glad you've finally discovered Body Pact!

I haven't been using it as much lately, but it's pretty sick with Taurog.

Indeed, and in no small part due to your info on it from back when he was on the discussion table :)

I'm purpusefully trying out stuff I never tried, trying to get a thorough sweep through the game, and so far I found Pactmaker a nice tool, and as balanced as Consensus granting feature can be (well, the CP pact needs love and has potential, see the "dungeons with lots of drops" thread). New consensus removed competition between it and the pacts, allthough I'm still unsure why does it have to be taken in a fixed sequence (if that's chaneable ad reasonable I'd change it). Still haven't used the overheal pact (even though I owe that to Darvin, sort of), and the CP one. but the rest are fun :)

And on with Thursday notes:

First Full Badges Dungeon - EDIT: Eastern Tundra (misswrote Creeplight here), and not in one run, but total. Finished on an Orc Wizard run for the Ice Heart golem. Was missing faithless and miser, went in with a Crystal Ball and a Schadenfraude, and also decided to test the vaunted Elite + Translocation bussines to score at least something from the shops. Scored Yendor. Beat dungeon. I say, the Crystall Ball is bloody awesome, and Wizard deffinitely picks up slack in the midgame.

Fruitless but accurate observation - To be erfectly honest, one feels like the Wizard is more of a 2nd tier class, what with a penaltyand reliance on unlocks and skill, and the Sorcerer more of a first tier class (what with no penalty and being really straighforward). I whish I've been around when alpha was being feedbacked upon and that the abilities could've been redistributed between them to make more sense. Oh well...

Gameflow Epiphany - Both the Transmuter Quests and the earlier Witch quests take the player on a tour around the first tier directional dungeons. This is very nice, and you do need some midgame power to tackle the quests in question. The exact location of the witch is still dubious (Wouldn't mind being able to find her in the southern swamp, for example). What exactly unlocks the transmuter subdungeon spawn, I don't know.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:14 pm
by The Avatar
I don't know why, but I never really use pactmaker except for consensus. I guess I like my piety for the god I earned it in.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:25 pm
by Lujo
The Avatar wrote:I don't know why, but I never really use pactmaker except for consensus. I guess I like my piety for the god I earned it in.

Neither did I, but with Consensus, especialy in normal, hard and side-hard dungeons there's a distinct piety overflow atm, and some of the pacts are really usefull. Body pact stepped up my Monk and Berserker game (for shoring up the missing resists, especially with Taurog's assistance, and I suppose that it ends up working well with Drac, too). The Warrior's pact (i think, the +1 HP) one stepped up my Rogue play (not that it needed any stepping up), and the potions one I have plans for once I unlock the potion items and start going at it with gnomes, halflings and all that nonsense (might even be good for thieves).

The overheal + might pact I still have to figure out, but Darvin allready has I just have to remember what he said about it, and the conversion pact needs the love we've been proposing (allthough there might be good reasons the dev's didn't want to touch it except we haven't really figured it out yet. I'm not taking that out of the picture, as I feel the Crystal Ball gold cost is actually rather low for what it does right now, but it just looks prohibitive)

And possibly the final Tursday note:

- Transmuter unlock: Completed via an Orc Taurog Monk w heavy preps, go figure (not warmonger, and I also beat up Jormugandr). I used JJ before Taurog this time, though.

Gameflow status: Anyway, the only quests which are doable without unlocking tier 3 classes are the 2 "complete with 4 classes" quests in the side-HARD dungeons and the class challenges (those which are doable, ofc). Once I'm done with that, I'm unlocking the 3rd tier classes and tackling the late mid-game, which is to say everything available but the "complete with 3 relevant classes" quests at the pre-vicious subdungeons, and possibly some midgame play around various places to test things out and maybe grab some locker worthy stuff (or even veto something if I can get a challenege veto slot). Then writeup, then late game. Deffinitely going into late game with all silver challenges done.

Big Like: - Berserker challenge writing. It's still hilarious :D Urugarwwwrrr!

More GETINDARE abuse Got me the thief gold chellenge win. If this keeps up, that damned glyph will net me a veto slot before the main quest even gets going. What's worrying is that I know I cheated on the Rogue Silver, and I also know I've tried and tried and got nowhere with the Fighter and Wizard gold challenges -.-'

Minor dissapointment - Oh, well, having seen the Thief gold, my hopes of maybe having a shot at persuading the devs of switching up the dagger and the gloves has been thoroughly dashed. Which is a shame, seeing how I was looking for a way to convert the damned dagger after I got to lvl 3 in the challenge, and the reason the switchup came to mind isn't a stupid one. As consolation for worrying about what still seems like a legit issue I will afford myself a concise, self depriciating, redundant mini rampage right here for the benefits of whoever reads this. Here goes:

Power Issue: GETINDARE - is abusive. To challenges presented by numerous game scenarios. And also abusable. By players.

Thief Gold - I can't asess the difficulty or the intended solution of.

My whining about it - has turned into an art form. A concise one, thank god.

Well, on with the playthrough.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:42 pm
by The Avatar
You don't really need the dagger for gold. I usually get kills two levels above me, after I nab ENDISWALL.

Re: Playthrough notes

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:21 pm
by Lujo
The Avatar wrote:You don't really need the dagger for gold. I usually get kills two levels above me, after I nab ENDISWALL.

Well, with GETINDARE the way it is I didn't need ENDISWALL ^^

Say, how in the world do you do Fighter Gold? I've tried, and I've tried and no dice.