Playthrough notes

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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby q 3 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Lujo wrote:Kingdom development idea - if the challenges have certifiably only one solution, like the RBS and the Fighter gold seems to have, then maybe they should be available only when the necessary parts are available? I know this is restrictive towards solving them in imaginative ways, but then again, I've just sunk more gold into pointlessly trying to do Fighter Gold than into anything else in the game apart from building unlocks. There's a feeling of "if it's unlocked then it's probably doable" , especially after you breeze through bronze / silver challenges (provided you do breeze through them). Also big feeling of dissatisfaction when they turn out to be undoable because you don't have something unlocked, and also a gold sink hazard. Just saying.


The thing about Fighter Gold in particular is that it's, to my recollection, the only gold challenge that allows - never mind requires - preps. The rest are all forced purist, so the only thing you're wasting is time. :D Modifying it, e.g. by adding the RBS as one of the items and maybe tinkering with enemy stats, then making it forced purist as well would be one solution.

Alternatively, since the class challenges are rather similar to puzzles and don't have normal gold rewards, maybe they could have their prep costs reduced to 0? It would make them more useful places for players to learn the relative value of different preps and how to use them, without breaking their banks on futile efforts.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:47 pm

Well, all of what you said is reasonable, as long as they do something.

Note: The Unlikely Heores quests look interesting, and fill the map up in a nice, symetrical fashin, while being really diverse. Funny thing is, if someone were to go about his plythrough the way I did, he'd end up with two nice concentric circles of quests in the directional HARD dungeons, offering 24 interesting runs. The only things on the map besides them are the 2 side-hard "complete with 4 classes" quests, the Grimms Grotto questline (which feels a bit redundant with the halfling Unlikely Heroe's quest) and finishing the Den of Danger with tier 3 classes. Still haven't unlocked Doubledoom yet.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:07 pm

Friday - Midgame

Noticed: - I've completed the Ice and Fury quest (4 classes in Barbarian Camp), and found it easy. Maybe because I've cheezed it thoroughly with a Rogue, a Monk and a Warlord, on top of the Sorcerer. However, the special subdungeon item that you can find there is LOCKERABLE. And the effect is quite powerfull I have to say. For one thing it makes Berserker Camp even easier, and might have applications in Ick Swamp or any crowded one. I wonder how much content snuck into the game that way?

LOL Item: - The item from the Barbarian Camp subdungeon is undescribable. Draco's heart isn't lockerable, and I think the policy on subdungeon items is that they're ment to be unlockerable, but this one is, and it's probably the most broken item in the game, ever, even including "ye olde brokene itemary" of yore. I don't even know if I should report it in the bug thread, how about someone with a better rep go pick it up, locker it and abuse it for a while?

Playthrough... Note? Finally unlocked the blacksmith unlock by unlocking the Assasin. Maybe you have to unlock 2 3rd tier classes?

Missclick death no. 3 - Muscle memory screwed me over while popcornbowling in Assasin Silver. At monster no. 15+. It was a learning expirience though, I learned that if I used WONNAFYT instead I can't pointlessly die because of the sensor differences between my keyboard and mouse. If I avoid WHEYTWUT entirely this won't happen again, and the fact that I was using hotkeys at all is a sure sign I wasn't playing in optimal circumstances because I was clearly out of my mind at the time. Either that or I need a new laptop with a less worn out keyboard...

Disclaimer - Sorry if anyone found the previous entry too sarcastic, but pointless deaths are pointless. Luckily it wasn't a prep loaded run.

Challenge notes - Assasin bronze was easy, Assasin silver was fair enough, but I'll really have to figure assasin gold out. I hope there's a catch. However, if I do it then it may be a gameflow issue, because I'll have a veto slot really, really early.

Note: Veto Slot! - Assasins gold was a refreshing and nicely original take on the "level fills up with plants" gimmick. Looks intimidating, isn't when you figure it out. And I got my third veto slot (allthough 2 of of 3 gold challenges were won by cheating). Just to note when I hit it - mid game, no vicious unlocked, 2 3rd tier classes. Right, now, what to veto? If I veto anything, I shake the testing nature of the run. Especially if I veto something I don't ever use, because maybe I just don't know how to use it and might learn? Maybe I should veto the spoon? Or an obscure quest reward?
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:04 pm

You can locker most subudungeon items. I think Draco's heart is the exception. What is the one you found in berserker camp?

What do you mean by you won two of the golds by cheating? GETINDARE?
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Yeah, Thief Gold I did nothing like I was supposed to, mostlly off GETINDARE dodge prediciton abuse, and Rogue I did while still in the very early game (rogue was my first 2nd tier unlock) with none of the recommended stuff and completely off of GETINDARE. Theoretically I could've rushed assasin and had a veto slot ages ago as I didn't use any of the recommended stuff for the assasin and mostly done it with an inventory loaded with basic glyphs...

And as for lockerable subdungeon rewards, I'm not kidding about the berserker camp one, if ever there was an item that could be classified as hilariously broken, this is it. GETINDARE's small potatoes, judging by the first imressions. Just give it a shot, if for no other reason then to explain to me why it isn't broken.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:05 am

Wait, I'm still confused. What do you mean by Berserker Camps pocketable subdungeon item? Does berserker camp have a subdungeon with an item that shows up every time? If so, what is it? Do you mean the fire heart?
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby xspeedballx on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:23 am

Avatar your question highlights something. Lujo, your write up's are interesting however your insistent desire towards being vague in some of your statements in what seems like a desire to raise the drama of your statement just makes it more annoying to read. If there is an item you want to talk about say it's name, if it does something you are debating SAY what it does. If there is a overpowered combo describe it. The allusions and vague statements undermine your feedback in a lot of ways. At least to me.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:57 am

Good point, except I'm sort of filling this up wth random thoughts not just feedback (analytical), to vent frustration when I run into what I percieve as stupid/annoying stuff. I let myself do it in these post edits, but I try do do the opposite with the wirteup. I'm also tryting to keep it as spoiler free as possible, which accounts for more of the vagueness than frustration venting.

(And i felt so dismayed by this item, that I really didn't want to say what it does publicaly. Bit of being annoying on my part, sorry about it).

Anyway, there's a subdungeon in the Berserker Camp which spawned pretty much every time, with a banker you can talk to inside, and he gives you a scroll which you can locker. It costs one gold per use and "shuffles" all existing enemies, that is, changes their positions. Not with one another, it moves them around the map like in the wizard silver challenge. I'm being vague about it because I can't exactly desribe the effect this has on a run. Saves a lot of exploration, for one thing, and creates the opportunity for every run to be "perfect". You do miss out on exploratory benefit of picking random stuff up, so I can't tell, but... Anyone, just go to the berserkes camp, dig it up, and check it out.

I don't know if it combos with anything in particular, but the effect feels so gamechanging on it's own that it doesn't look like it has to. You reveal a quarter of the map, and just fish for those perfect opportunities. Currently I'm torn between deciding whether

a) it wasn't ment to be lockerable (think dislekcia or nandrew said somethig like that about subdungeon items in general when I asked about the sticky stick). In this case it's still useable in Berserker camp.
b) the devs were drunk/trolling when they put it in there, because the effect is really powerfull
c) it just costs too llittle gold to use
d) it's working as intended, in which case I don't know what to think, except finding such a powerfull item on accident, after the point where "theyre not introducing more stuff into the game" argument has been taken rather seriously makes me feel... strange and uncooperative. I don't know, how many other things are in there that I don't know about? I can make myself look like a big jackass by having strong opinions wihtout not having a clue about the totality of the content (which is why I'll rather be vague about things untill writeup, and even then put a huge disclaimer saying "from my point of view and place in the game playthrough that I'm at currently")
e) Somebody's 75$ reward mention idea was implemented without thinking it through
f) It wasn't ment to be reuseable

EDIT: All of the above if it's indeed powerfull. God knows if it's really balanced better than I can see. Maybe it's not powerfull? Mybe it's geniuosly balanced around deeper considerations than one's I've undertaken, has happened before.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby xspeedballx on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:22 pm

You are talking about the ledger from the vampire banker. On use reshuffles all monsters in the left to random positions(can and will appear over existing shops and stairs). Costs 1 gold per use. It is not berzerker camp exclusive. Nor did I see it any of the time I did the camp. I however did see it 3 times in a row in Eastern Tundra while farming a witch.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:38 pm

It's a random eastern subdungeon. I've found it in all of the east.

You can locker all of the new subdungeon items I think. I lockered the one that works like a slayer wand except it turns people into animated armors, because it looks cool.
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