Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby q 3 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:56 pm

I suspect Rogues might have to get a handicap - yeah, they're among the most powerful classes in terms of crushing everything, but in terms of getting badges? Without a way to improve max HP they're nearly helpless, and in order to improve their max HP they usually need to give up one or more expensive badges. Although we'll see how this plays out with the current challenge.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:11 pm

The deal with Purist is that it is a very powerful enabler. Winning as a purist isn't all that hard, but going Purist and still snagging lots of hard badges is very difficult. I don't think there's anything we can really do about it. I guess we could implement some kind of ridiculously complex sliding scale, but getting that to work is probably an undertaking at least as hard as mastering the game itself.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:30 pm

Well, if the dev's like the concept enough to advertize it on the frontpage, maybe they could add a button to the victory screen which would let window with the prep loadout pop up or replace the monster kill tally. Would do a world of good to curbing prep power in these situations, and also be really good for general run writeups in balance/help/strat threads.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Darvin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:44 am

Perhaps it's a little early, but I had an idea for Dungeon of the Day 5

We could do an Expert and Regular division, with the expert division randomly choosing a vicious scenario (other than VGT) and the regular division doing a hard dungeon. The class selection would be the same between the two divisions. Enforcement of the division breakdown would be purely voluntary; if someone wants to participate in both divisions (I'd imagine someone like Dreamdancer would fall into that category) that's their perogative, but people like Avatar or me should stick to expert.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby q 3 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:47 am

I do think I would enjoy this a lot more with a vicious dungeon. At the very least, it should keep Darvin and Avatar from getting 9/10 medals every time. :D

If monster classes are going to be added, IMO Vampires shouldn't get much if any of a handicap. For one thing, they're mandatory Faithless, and are powerful enough not to need it. And they're not particularly disadvantaged with any badge save Hoarder. Really, I think the Vampire can usually nab everything but Hoarder without too much trouble.

Once we have some more data, it might be useful to recalculate Darvin's weighted point values for medals, but looking only at the winner for each dungeon. If certain medals are consistently being ditched by the top scorers, that's pretty strong evidence that they're undervalued (and vice versa for those that appear more frequently at the top of the standings).

Sidestepper wrote:The deal with Purist is that it is a very powerful enabler. Winning as a purist isn't all that hard, but going Purist and still snagging lots of hard badges is very difficult. I don't think there's anything we can really do about it. I guess we could implement some kind of ridiculously complex sliding scale, but getting that to work is probably an undertaking at least as hard as mastering the game itself.


I think part of it is that preparations don't have as much synergy with the other badge things. For example, giving up Faithless usually doesn't do that much for you on its own - GG and Taurog are significantly handicapped unless you give up Hoarder, while Mystera, JJ, and Binlor are nearly unusable unless you give up Warmonger. (Earthmother, Dracul, and Tikki Tooki aren't quite as handicapped with any one medal, but to a lesser extent but with more medals.) On the other hand, taking Whupaz, Reflex, Quicksilver, a stat booster, and Namtar's Ward, gives you a tremendous advantage even if you go for every other medal.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Darvin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:00 am

On the other hand, taking Whupaz, Reflex, Quicksilver, a stat booster, and Namtar's Ward, gives you a tremendous advantage even if you go for every other medal.

This is true; non-purist is inherently compatible with every other medal, whereas other medals tend to have a certain degree of overlap. I think with the class handicap, however, we'll see less "9-medal rampage" type scores as people use more difficult classes with fewer medals to compete.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:44 am

The Avatar wrote:I think priests bonus is too high. They have too much potential. I'd recommend +3 for the next round.

They really are only giving up Parched; everything else is totally up for grabs.

We'll compare the Priest scores with the Crusader scores at the end of the round. If the Priests outscore the Crusaders by a significant margin, we'll move them to +3 in the future.

q 3 wrote:(One perk of doing a vicious version of this - less randomness/scumming, since the bosses are fixed.)

This is very true. Heck, we might consider a boss handicap at some point (although scoring would become a little convoluted).
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Lujo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:12 am

I'm reiterating the whole "we need a post-run prep tally screen" on the following grounds:

Prepping a Translocation Scroll actually makes miser meaningless as long as you score somethign to go along with your prepped locker/backpack strat enabler. Prepping the "silly potions kit" without health and mana potions (old Gaan'Telet style) along with the 3XAlchemy shops prep let's you fuel a trisword and alchemist scroll pretty well while still staying parched. And just Schadenfraude + Alchemist lets you play a parched spellcaster with relative ease.

A vet (or, say, Balkaneeze descendant of a long line of highwaymen, pirates, smugglers, economists and catolic clergy) can che... I mean, prep his way to several badges leaving newbies dazed, confused and disenhartened. Just saying.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby gjaustin on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:50 pm

Lujo, your post is why I originally suggested that Purist be worth 5. It's an incredible amount of power and it feels like a steal at 4 points. ESPECIALLY, now that the extra powerup preps are back. An extra +20% attack is not to be ignored.

And, of course Whupaz + Reflex Potion is a crazy combo, since you get the "effect that shall not be named" twice in a row.
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Re: Dungeon of the Day - Master Thread

Postby Lujo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:51 pm

gjaustin wrote:And, of course Whupaz + Reflex Potion is a crazy combo, since you get the "effect that shall not be named" twice in a row.


:shock:

How does that even...
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