The seasonal greetings

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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:36 pm

Oh well, wizard might've needed a buff, but this is one of the most broken things imaginable (coincidence probably). But still, please hotfix this little thing somehow?

And, err, JJ into Drac into GG would all work while lvl one. You'd be superman. Maybe they did this on purpose to give the newbies a taste of "madly borken" and set new standards for the term? Someone ought to take a few hours to go to naga city, find them all, and one shot all the bosses. You could take the Treasure and a conversion seal in there to stock up on TT stuff as well. Or walk thorugh VICIOUS Gaan'Telet like is paper. Or pick up max level of every imaginable boon at the same time and take a picture of it (U'd need agnostic for that and sacrificing a couple of altars once you're done with them) :D

Say, breaking this thing beyond belief would make a swell forum game over the hollydays.
Last edited by Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Dreamdancer on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:42 pm

Going Chaos Avatar has the advantage that one would loose the weakening and corrosion stacks. Additionally Chaos Avatar gives us 100 conversion points, so we don't need to buy a 5th potion to get all the four Boost Health boons ;)
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Dreamdancer wrote:Going Chaos Avatar has the advantage that one would loose the weakening and corrosion stacks. Additionally Chaos Avatar gives us 100 conversion points, so we don't need to buy a 5th potion to get all the four Boost Health boons ;)


:D :D :D

I say, unless they fix this before they come back from the break, how about we make some really redonculous pics of halfling wizards in Naga City or somewhere where you can find all the altars? Provided the game doesn't crash first, which it might considering all the conversion that would be necessary.

And we'd need some foolproof way to jump between gods and not get locked out, as well.

It would also take a bunch of hours.
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:49 pm

GETINDARE no longer awards dodge prediction.

Harsh, but necessary. I will miss the incredible power of dodge prediction on a glyph. Speaking of which, WEYTWUT could use a secondary effect :lol:

Poison on enemies changed to a stacking effect. 1 stack prevents 1 health worth of regeneration.

Interesting; APHEELSIK applies 10 stacks automatically, so it's basically unchanged, and the others are set to weaker kinds of poison. Don't have much time to scum to test these out; can anyone say what stack levels they're at?

Wizard damage returned to baseline, gains bonus conversion from glyphs in inventory

Nice! A powerful and potent buff for the weakest class in the game.

Reflex potion reflexes effect now only wears off once you perform your free attack, the first strike, however, does wear off.

Interesting; so in theory you can use the first-strike against one foe (killing it on that strike) and then the free attack against another foe.

Strength effect on Transmuter and Strength Potion no longer stacks

This is fair enough, but I feel the Transmuter will need a buff to compensate since stacking his strength bonus is his entire shtick.

I also feel strength potion really needs something to make it more than a 1st-level character gimmick.

Just pick up all glyphs and convert potions for 80 conversions each oO Poison is nice

Hmmm... wizard gets 6 glyphs in play, +1 from extra glyphs, +1 freebee from a deity, and (if you're lucky) +1 from a subdungeon and that lets you raise total conversion value of a potion to 90. A halfling requires 80 CP to create a healing potion. Infinite loop FTW!

Oh, and btw, it's possible to go infinte Drac and GG piety with extra glyph and halflings ATM, I just checked

Even better.

think they ought to fix either the conversion bonus ammount or make it not apply to small items, like, right away, hotfix style.

Probably apply half the bonus to small items.
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:51 pm

Darvin wrote:
GETINDARE no longer awards dodge prediction.

Harsh, but necessary. I will miss the incredible power of dodge prediction on a glyph. Speaking of which, WEYTWUT could use a secondary effect :lol:


:lol:

It would justify the price though.

Oh, and I hadn't thought of the free glyphs. Extra Glyph plus deity/subdungeon glyph and... Even Gnomes could go infinte!

And 50% might be too much still. It's 35-45 per spoon. All out proposals for the Pactmaker conversion pact look modest and tame in comparison...
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:06 pm

And the Pactmaker requires piety to pull it off, too!

I think the best solution may be to keep it as it is, but have it cap out at doubling the CP of the converted item.


Taking gnomes infinite is small potatoes; Halflings actually get 90 CP for converting a healing potions. That means for every 8 healing potions they convert, they get 9 healing potions. Now if only I could figure out a way to leverage infinite money out of this situation to fuel a trisword...
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby gjaustin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Lujo wrote:
gjaustin wrote:So now APHEELSIK lowers health regeneration by 10 per level. I don't know if that's the caster's level or the monster's level. I actually suspect that it's a typo, and it should just be 10.

Hopefully the Venom Sword now works on every hit, but only adds a few layers of poison.


Character level, and poisoned dagger i'm not sure about. Tooltip sayse one poison attack for 5 poison (not per level).


That can't be right. Why would you ever need to block 100 health worth of regeneration?
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Darvin wrote:And the Pactmaker requires piety to pull it off, too!

I think the best solution may be to keep it as it is, but have it cap out at doubling the CP of the converted item.


Taking gnomes infinite is small potatoes; Halflings actually get 90 CP for converting a healing potions. That means for every 8 healing potions they convert, they get 9 healing potions. Now if only I could figure out a way to leverage infinite money out of this situation to fuel a trisword...


Well, halflings also get infintie piety with Drac, who gives more for healing potions than gg does for small items (I think), and as far as optimisation goes, with all altars available the first stop after a 100 piety is Binor for the endiswall glyph and some wall munching to swap back into whoever.

And I also think it sayes a lot good about the state of ballance that all the results of this crazyness is finite, except infinte potions means infinite damage on it's own.

gjaustin wrote:That can't be right. Why would you ever need to block 100 health worth of regeneration?


Well, thecnicaly, with the old poison, you'd block an infinite ammount of regeneration, which is why I was reffering to it as "The Hack". Now it tells you how many tiles you have left to explore before the monster starts regenerating as normal, and all 3 stack with each other. TT's poison is a stackable boon and provides 10 per level, I think, same as APHEELSICK.

100 Health worth of regen is... 10 tiles against a boss. Youd want 130 to fill up a standard mana pool, and a lot more to fill up a spellcasting one, or a dwarves health pool. So TT's Poison was well nerfed it seems, and deservedly so.

EDIT: Say, has anyone checked if poison still breaks if you attack something else?
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Oh, it seems I misunderstood the change. I thought poison blocked a certain amount of regeneration indefinitely (thus 5 stacks of poison would fully-stop regeneration up to 5th level monsters, but not higher). Instead, poison now blocks a certain amount of flat regeneration but is no longer cancelled by attacks.

If that is the case, then this is a pretty harsh nerf to APHEELSIK, largely no change to Tikki's poison, and a fair buff to the venom dagger. Why? Because APHEELSIK is almost exclusively used at the end of an exhaustive attack chain and it's virtually assured it will time out before you've recovered your health and mana. However, the on-attack poisons will stack up 2-3 times during your combat chain and will almost certainly last long enough for you to fully healh. I hope I'm misunderstanding this; will test later.
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Re: The seasonal greetings

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:41 pm

Darvin wrote:Oh, it seems I misunderstood the change. I thought poison blocked a certain amount of regeneration indefinitely (thus 5 stacks of poison would fully-stop regeneration up to 5th level monsters, but not higher). Instead, poison now blocks a certain amount of flat regeneration but is no longer cancelled by attacks.

If that is the case, then this is a pretty harsh nerf to APHEELSIK, largely no change to Tikki's poison, and a fair buff to the venom dagger. Why? Because APHEELSIK is almost exclusively used at the end of an exhaustive attack chain and it's virtually assured it will time out before you've recovered your health and mana. However, the on-attack poisons will stack up 2-3 times during your combat chain and will almost certainly last long enough for you to fully healh. I hope I'm misunderstanding this; will test later.


Yeah, I'm not too sure how it works either, or works out. I'm particularly not sure about the dagger stackign with itself (sayes one attack, and seems to adda flat 5 which makes it potentially even worse than it was before). TT's poison now needs a bigger piety investment to be as effective, and APHEELSICK looks to be worse as a spellcasting combo piece, but shold work ok with melle guys.
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