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QCF Design Community • View topic - Items, Items, and more Items!


Items, Items, and more Items!

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:58 am

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby FDru on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:44 am

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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:01 am

I don't know. A rogue with all 3 or those downed can get some SERIOUSLY high level kills at level 1 with a tri-sword, especially if you can spare an extra potion.
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Blovski on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:16 am

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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby paplaukes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 am

Church: I don't use these at all. MAYBE Binlor for the few places that wall you off. Most god penalties I'd just never take, even if they dropped the altar on the starting point. I feel like the game is balanced to be able to clear hard dungeons with any god/class, and it only might start breaking apart in the endgame, really vicious places, which push you to edge cases/strats/combos to be able to win. And I'm ok with that, but currently, on hard stuff, leaving these preps be.

Blacksmith: BS items are large, require keeping them the entire game (I think? there's a restock fee?) and are unlocked early on so they aren't that powerful. This means they get to compete with shop items and glyphs, and they just don't compare. So I only ever take the 10% attack booster. Used bear mace in a few situations (blinking mobs, dungeons that wall you off). Used shield early on. Or sword combined with lockered fine sword, again, early on.

Rock heart - Bought/used it once, the effect was underwhelming (I guess I expected alpha gorgon effect). Not even sure I'd buy it as a Binlor worshipper.

Pretty happy with other items. Would maybe veto a few early ones since there are better choices later in the game.
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Blovski on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:57 pm

Blacksmith items are convertible - the specific keepers are the RBS and the Slayer Wand - the first requiring you to keep it until you're done with a phys-res boss, the second requiring you to keep it until you've zapped whatever you want to (especially in Dragon Isles, for instance). Trick with swords especially is to use them to get a better first level kill and then just swap them out once you've found something else.

Rock Heart is very situational but has great cp:cost ratio. The main users are things like Pisorfing Orc Wizards, which get effectively a 2 MP, healing pisorf, or some Binlor worshippers (I used it with a Binlor Gorgon yesterday, which worked really solidly).
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby paplaukes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:07 pm

Ta for clearing that up - still, it's a small 10% attack booster throughout the game vs situational items. Then again I'm a hoarder, prefer going through game having a fireball+weytwut+imawal + something else just in case over conversion goodies.
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:59 pm

I just had a thought - Crystall Ball is too good because it turns gold into Fireballs, Trisword is too good because it turns gold into cheap non-slot taking fine swords with too little effort, but maybe the biggest issue is the general availability of GOLD.

Not saying Trisword and CB don't need to get hit, they do. So do Binlor (maybe) and B2P (certanly) (naysayers can take a look at the new pics in the playthrough notes).

But the introduction of the second boss, and ingame gold on boss death (25!) really made in-dungeon gold flow rather freely if you're not using it to buy expensive stuff. Couple this with Gloves of Midas, add the fact that Black Market can practicaly be auto-prep in most cases, and add TT if you feel like it. I'm not even going to go into compression seal and blacksmith preps, as I haven't been aware of them up till now, and Fabulous Treasure is a lazy CP secret prep anyway...

Then consider that too many generic subdungeons seem to have a bunch of gold in them, and draw your conclusions...
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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Darvin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:27 pm

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Re: Items, Items, and more Items!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:39 pm

Yeah, I'm cool with dealing with CB and the Trisword rather than that, I was just pointing it out. In simmilar scenarious I remember times when the devs opted to deal with this kind of thing with such a general nerf (say in case of overexploration, the basic item conversion bonanza plantation), but I'm cool either way...

You have to remember though that the original Trisword actually WAS balanced around what the Trisword actually breaks - you get as much damage as you'd get from a bunch of fine swords, but you have to sacrifice item slots. The same logic sort of goes behind the current one - you have to sacrifice your buying power, except you don't really sacrifice your buying power if you're just looking for damage since there is nothing else to buy... The old one gave fine swords for no money, this one gives fine swords for no inventory space (and an opportunity cost in potions, but that's obviously not working as intended)...

And if it moves from the current scheme, then the potion races get a bit of a shaft (not that they aren't strong, but I doubt an average newbie/casual can really see that, especially for the halflings). Heck, a trisword-like big damage booster could very well work like the ancient trisword of yore - +X damage for every empty item slot, with a level cap, see how you liek them apples. And we could have a +1 damage trigger on potion use thing which only counted health and mana potions and turned better than a fine sword with a sufficent investment (or whatever).

The Crystall Ball - it was originally introduced as a way to help spellcasters, and after you do a thorough playthrough, you can sort of see why it's available early and not as a VICOUS reward - it was probably to help Wizards in the early kingdom development. I'd say the most evil thing you could do would be to make any gold cost it has include a -X total mana hit. But I'm at a bit of a loss here, that effect is both too powerfull and has no competition whatsoever...
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