q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby Lujo on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:42 am

Loved it - that's a Namtars Lair purist run. <3

I'm not at all sure you could've won (understatement), but there were things you could do. I think sticking with the platemail for too long was an issue considering your god options, finding Taurog tat late was really misfortunate, but you could've really used the TT potions to great effect. Also picking up Tiki's Edge Earlier, with converting a few items, would've let you use the popcorn for greater benefits, so Yendor could've been used to greater effect. Getting rid of the Platemail would also mean you can get use of GETINDARE, and all that.

Anywho - great stuff in there, would watch again.
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby dislekcia on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:30 pm

I like these - the sound quality in your second video is much better :)

Will give them a complete watch when I'm not pushing to get new functionality into the Layerset editor. I really like the way you're commenting on what you're doing and why.
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby q 3 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:03 pm

Lujo wrote:Loved it - that's a Namtars Lair purist run. <3


Heh, I think we might just have to agree to disagree; I actually think the second video is a perfect example of why scumming is a good thing. Spending a full hour on a run that was becoming more and more doomed with each move just isn't much fun for me. In my mind, a heroic loss is still a loss, and a sneaky win is still a win. (There are more than gameplay reasons why I prefer Rogues and Assassins.) A Tinker can in fact beat Namtar and can do so without even needing your own incredible luck ( ;) ); it's just that the % chance of winning any particular attempt, even with near-optimal play, is much lower than 100%. Abandoning attempts that have a sufficiently low % chance so that I can focus my effort on the attempts that have a higher % chance is just a way of using my time efficiently.

(Granted, my first video wasn't such a great example since my first "good" dungeon turned to be a "great" one with an insta GG, PISORF, easy high-level monsters, etc. I would have happily taken a dungeon with, say, a JJ altar at the 25% revealed mark and made a go of it. But I think I'm going to move on from Namtar for now.)

dislekcia wrote:I like these - the sound quality in your second video is much better :)


Thanks. Hopefully I can figure out what I did differently! :D
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby ChasGB on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:43 pm

Two things:
1) q_3, your videos are amazing; I learned so many things from watching you play in that video that were lost on me from the annotated playthroughs...in fact, within an hour or so of watching your video...

Image

Success! First Vicious Dungeon ever! (and without the lucky dodges ;)) Which brings me to
2) as I'm taking screenshots, Firefox crashes. Before I got to the Kingdom screen. Start DD back up and: No Treasure for my locker, no gold in my vault, no credit for beating the dungeon. Given that if there's a crash any other time we get "credit" by losing our prep gold, etc, it seems kinda lame that it doesn't save dungeon completion at the "Victory" screen...
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby Sidestepper on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:07 pm

I see you did the classic Orc Rogue of Glowing Guardian. A strong choice overall, but especially strong against Namtar.
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby Lujo on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:29 pm

Heck, I learned from watching your video's, but I was a bit freaked out because of all the times I complain about something and someone shows up with "oh, it's fine, I beat it purist". When I see a comment like that, I don't exactly think it's supposed to mean "oh, it's fine because 2% of the existing content can beat it", I think someone's telling me that I'm missing something. Then I feel like I need to go and reevaluate my strategy, look at the big picture, see what I've missed.

But when it turns out that it ment "it's fine because you can beat it with a GG rogue / zombie gold BM / cb Wizard / trisword whatever" - it makes me go "Hell, no! I knew that, you can't balance around that stuff!". Now I didn't go on about NL in my playthrough notes for no reason - it's really, really hard compared to other places, and being able to beat it with that sort of cheezy stuff doesn't justify it's power level for various reasons. Nor does it's existance justify the huge power gap between those things and all the other stuff. You can actually play this game like a very fun, very even expirience with nice increments of difficulty and if you do NL last - BAM - suddenly you're either knee deep in cheeze or knee deep in sh*t, your call.

And it's not like you don't have anything to teach people who don't know stuff that you do - that's exactly the thing. Make more vids, do a round around other VICIOUS, don't limit yourself to purist. If you want to show of a crazy combo - show it off. Who cares about badges? "Showing" people how to get them this way is the least thing someone can learn from your play...
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 am

ChasGB wrote:Success! First Vicious Dungeon ever! (and without the lucky dodges ;))


Congratulations! I promise I'll branch out to other vicious dungeons next. Hopefully Lujo won't scold me too much for my cheap tactics. :D There should be some awfully silly Assassin shenanigans in future entries.

Lujo wrote:And it's not like you don't have anything to teach people who don't know stuff that you do - that's exactly the thing. Make more vids, do a round around other VICIOUS, don't limit yourself to purist. If you want to show of a crazy combo - show it off. Who cares about badges? "Showing" people how to get them this way is the least thing someone can learn from your play...


Actually, one of the reasons I mostly play purist is that I just use preps so rarely that I'm really no good at playing with them. They add a bunch of new elements to the game that I have a hard time figuring out how to combo well. I'd personally really like to see some prep-heavy videos for the truly mindbendingly difficult dungeons (although at the moment that's mostly just the Tower, isn't it?).

Also, this isn't really meant as a teaching exercise - though I'm pleased if people can learn from it - and more for entertainment purposes only. And of course I can't do non-purist, non-vicious playthroughs, they're both right in the title of the thread! :D
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:25 am

Goblin Assassin versus Vicious Halls of Steel. I think I'm getting more and more longwinded with each of these. :? This was a fun run, though.
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby FDru on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:52 am

q 3 wrote:I think I'm getting more and more longwinded with each of these. :?


Now there's an understatement.

Before I forget, I wanted to mention that blood pools stack on top of eachother. (At least, they did in the last build.)

Nicely informative video, though. I'm about halfway through it, going to go watch the rest...

edit: was really hoping you'd do the PISORF + Bear Mace on Blah Blah but then you converted PISORF and I was sad. He was basically in the perfect position to be knocked along that backwards L shaped section then into the huge column in the middle. FYI, knockback counters blink as long as the enemy actually moves (into a wall or empty square).
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Re: q_3's Vicious Purist Playthroughs

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:35 pm

Oh, as per your request, the vampyr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ1tUvlN ... D441A14910

If, err, this turns out watchable/listenable, I think I'd be up for a VICIOUS Gaan'Telet spotlight done in this manner. I'm not sure I could keep it up for an hour, though :D
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