Labyrinth snake baiting. Also theory. Facultative.
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:46 am
Ok, so I'll bait the RNG to screw me over with snakes everywhere on my next purist monk runs. I expect nothing at all from this thread, and I hope I'm not spamming too hard, but I have to point an obvious thing out and explain it a bit. And ask a few questions from my colleagues.
So, pretty much everyone knows by now I'm having a beef with my own overuse of the Bloodmage and BLOODOPOWA. Blovski has reported a really crazy BM win in the priest thread, and I've done vids on B2P, and all that, and god knows what the devs have in store allready. I just want to textwall a bit of theory here. It's been a long time coming, and guys who were paying atention will remember me going on about this during the previous walkthrough - especially when I was dismantling the old Gaan'Telet over and over again.
So, the thing with the Bloodmage, the thing that sets him apart from everybody else is that he, on his own, introduces way too much extra resources into any run. As in, with no effort at all, he simply has more resources at his disposal.
1) He starts with Bloodtopowa - This means his blackspace, as long as he goes dedicated caster, increases by 1/3. So, unless you waste too much blackspace looking for stuff, this ability reads - "you start with a big bunch of tiles the other guys don't start with", and since you can explore while you spike - you waste less blackspace on exploration and reach more walled off exploration. This translates into practicaly having an equivalent of a Zombie Gold subdungeon a every run, and if you do in fact hit Zombie Gold (or Pan's Labyrinth, or Contemplate the Waters, or Cha'Dylan...) - you practicaly can't lose.
Now, this is an issue with B2P rather than the BM, and is true for any dedicated caster - and B2P can turn anyone into a dedicated caster (hint, try it with halfling priests). But B2P will hopefully get what's coming to it in one of the upcoming updates.
The Bloodmage, However:
2) Starts with sanguine:
Now this means he can really milk his B2P very early. You might say, yes but he then lacks bloodpools for the end fight! To that I say - SO DO 16 OUT OF 18 GUYS, unless they worship drac. And the only other guy who starts with sanguine is ment to be a bragging rights reward. Sure, it plays into the whole B2P based spellcaster thing, but sanguine is STRONG - with no effort at all, a run with sanguine provides a huge ammount of healing from what is basicaly a graphical reminder that there was a monster in that tile before you killed it.
The ability, in any incarnation, is so strong that it would warrant more monsters leaving behind stuff other than blood, but I'm not arguing in favor of that (or anything, really), just pointing it out. As it is now - there are no checks and balances in the game keeping sanguine in check, and I really wouldn't mind some. It would also help balancing Drac a bit.
However, not only does BM start with one of the arguably strongest abilities in the game he also:
3) Regains a mana point upon drinking a bloodpool.
Now this is just bullshit. Sanguine is enough to kill at least one boss per dungeon on it's own, if not 2. So is B2P. B2P + Sanguine are enough to kill several bosses per dungeon, because they increase the number of resources available to the player in any run by an obviously crazy ammount. And on top of this - BM gets 2-3 Clearances worth of tacticaly allocative mana tacked onto an allready literaly gamebreaking ability... Just because. Why not just start him off with a blue bead on top of all this, so he can throw down a fireball every time he kills a lvl1 popcorn?
But wait, there's more:
4) Drinking mana potions increases his sanguine:
So not only does he start with sanguine, and get mana out of sanguine, he also increases the effects of sanguine by drinking mana potions? Which he, as a mana based spiker actually wants to do anyway? Yay - more resources unavailable to any other class!
But wait! He gets even more!
5) The sanguine increesing mana potions? They also restore 80% of his mana, as opposed to 60% which everyone else gets! So he gets even more resources, this time more than anyone else in the game except the thief would get, yet allocated in a way which he would prefer.
6) And I'm not even going into the sinergies with the potion races, the dvarwes, the orcs, the elves and all that jazz...
The tradeoff? There's got to be a tradeoff, right, I mean, he practicaly starts with an entire second dungeon worth of hassle-free resources.
1) He has to waste exploration to find either fireball or pissorf.
Except he still has built in sanguine, so he can melle stuff with little problems as long as he can afford some popcorn. And prepping either Binlor or Magnet: Fireball completely eliminates this issue. So does scumming - fireball's pretty much the only thing you need, and since it can be prepped and B2P can't, he's in a much better position than anyone who'd want to rely on B2P.
2) He's counterintuitive
In the "you go paranoid from expecting there being a catch, when in fact there isn't one" sense. Or in the "nothing else in the game indicates something like this would be possible" sense. There isn't a catch, and it's very possible.
So, rather than suggest anything, as I'm blowing off steam and providing a showcase of just how and why is this guy so incredibly over-the-top, I got a few questions, and I promise not to immediately leap on anyone who replies with spam:
1) Is anyone at all having a problem making the current Bloodmage work?
2) Can anyone think of anyone else who comes close to this kind of drawbackless resource advantage? Apart from the Monk, who pays dearly for his broken resource advantage.
3) Does anyone find the regular Sanguine to be lackluster?
4) If this guy ever gets whalloped with the nerf bat, would making broader checks and balances for sanguine and B2P be preffereble?
5) What do you think about having certain monsters leave behind stuff other than bloodpools (nothing, dust, plants, corrosion pools, weakening pools, nasty crap that does nothing unless you try to drink it)?
6) How about hazards to using B2P (Monsters who regenearate or overheal when you use it and so on and so forth)?
Ty for your patience.
So, pretty much everyone knows by now I'm having a beef with my own overuse of the Bloodmage and BLOODOPOWA. Blovski has reported a really crazy BM win in the priest thread, and I've done vids on B2P, and all that, and god knows what the devs have in store allready. I just want to textwall a bit of theory here. It's been a long time coming, and guys who were paying atention will remember me going on about this during the previous walkthrough - especially when I was dismantling the old Gaan'Telet over and over again.
So, the thing with the Bloodmage, the thing that sets him apart from everybody else is that he, on his own, introduces way too much extra resources into any run. As in, with no effort at all, he simply has more resources at his disposal.
1) He starts with Bloodtopowa - This means his blackspace, as long as he goes dedicated caster, increases by 1/3. So, unless you waste too much blackspace looking for stuff, this ability reads - "you start with a big bunch of tiles the other guys don't start with", and since you can explore while you spike - you waste less blackspace on exploration and reach more walled off exploration. This translates into practicaly having an equivalent of a Zombie Gold subdungeon a every run, and if you do in fact hit Zombie Gold (or Pan's Labyrinth, or Contemplate the Waters, or Cha'Dylan...) - you practicaly can't lose.
Now, this is an issue with B2P rather than the BM, and is true for any dedicated caster - and B2P can turn anyone into a dedicated caster (hint, try it with halfling priests). But B2P will hopefully get what's coming to it in one of the upcoming updates.
The Bloodmage, However:
2) Starts with sanguine:
Now this means he can really milk his B2P very early. You might say, yes but he then lacks bloodpools for the end fight! To that I say - SO DO 16 OUT OF 18 GUYS, unless they worship drac. And the only other guy who starts with sanguine is ment to be a bragging rights reward. Sure, it plays into the whole B2P based spellcaster thing, but sanguine is STRONG - with no effort at all, a run with sanguine provides a huge ammount of healing from what is basicaly a graphical reminder that there was a monster in that tile before you killed it.
The ability, in any incarnation, is so strong that it would warrant more monsters leaving behind stuff other than blood, but I'm not arguing in favor of that (or anything, really), just pointing it out. As it is now - there are no checks and balances in the game keeping sanguine in check, and I really wouldn't mind some. It would also help balancing Drac a bit.
However, not only does BM start with one of the arguably strongest abilities in the game he also:
3) Regains a mana point upon drinking a bloodpool.
Now this is just bullshit. Sanguine is enough to kill at least one boss per dungeon on it's own, if not 2. So is B2P. B2P + Sanguine are enough to kill several bosses per dungeon, because they increase the number of resources available to the player in any run by an obviously crazy ammount. And on top of this - BM gets 2-3 Clearances worth of tacticaly allocative mana tacked onto an allready literaly gamebreaking ability... Just because. Why not just start him off with a blue bead on top of all this, so he can throw down a fireball every time he kills a lvl1 popcorn?
But wait, there's more:
4) Drinking mana potions increases his sanguine:
So not only does he start with sanguine, and get mana out of sanguine, he also increases the effects of sanguine by drinking mana potions? Which he, as a mana based spiker actually wants to do anyway? Yay - more resources unavailable to any other class!
But wait! He gets even more!
5) The sanguine increesing mana potions? They also restore 80% of his mana, as opposed to 60% which everyone else gets! So he gets even more resources, this time more than anyone else in the game except the thief would get, yet allocated in a way which he would prefer.
6) And I'm not even going into the sinergies with the potion races, the dvarwes, the orcs, the elves and all that jazz...
The tradeoff? There's got to be a tradeoff, right, I mean, he practicaly starts with an entire second dungeon worth of hassle-free resources.
1) He has to waste exploration to find either fireball or pissorf.
Except he still has built in sanguine, so he can melle stuff with little problems as long as he can afford some popcorn. And prepping either Binlor or Magnet: Fireball completely eliminates this issue. So does scumming - fireball's pretty much the only thing you need, and since it can be prepped and B2P can't, he's in a much better position than anyone who'd want to rely on B2P.
2) He's counterintuitive
In the "you go paranoid from expecting there being a catch, when in fact there isn't one" sense. Or in the "nothing else in the game indicates something like this would be possible" sense. There isn't a catch, and it's very possible.
So, rather than suggest anything, as I'm blowing off steam and providing a showcase of just how and why is this guy so incredibly over-the-top, I got a few questions, and I promise not to immediately leap on anyone who replies with spam:
1) Is anyone at all having a problem making the current Bloodmage work?
2) Can anyone think of anyone else who comes close to this kind of drawbackless resource advantage? Apart from the Monk, who pays dearly for his broken resource advantage.
3) Does anyone find the regular Sanguine to be lackluster?
4) If this guy ever gets whalloped with the nerf bat, would making broader checks and balances for sanguine and B2P be preffereble?
5) What do you think about having certain monsters leave behind stuff other than bloodpools (nothing, dust, plants, corrosion pools, weakening pools, nasty crap that does nothing unless you try to drink it)?
6) How about hazards to using B2P (Monsters who regenearate or overheal when you use it and so on and so forth)?
Ty for your patience.