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QCF Design Community • View topic - The high end potions and the difficulty curve


The high end potions and the difficulty curve

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The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:59 pm

Ok, here's a bit of reasoning that I don't recall seeing discussed, ever...

Why exactly are the Dodge and Reflex potions available as preps?

Ok, I can see the point of making them available so people can get familiar with them and all that, but... They're really strong. As in, really, really, really gamebreakingly strong. Either one of them can be used as a better slayer wand, they're the most common Tri-Sword fuel, they spell a couple of effortless levelups in most circumstances, or 2 free hits on any boss, one of which can also be a Whoopaz hit.

Heck, on big damage guys like the Rogue, Warlord or Berserker they can kill the boss or half a boss on their own. I can't even imagine what the late midgame or the endgame even looks like without them, but they just stick around in the inventory of just about any character you make and reduce the factual number of hits you need to make on the boss to kill him. This can go as low as allowing you to kill a boss you would otherwise not be able to land any hits on, which can be obvious to anyone who scumms up Aequitas for a faithles lvl1 Rogue kill with just a few preps.

I don't know what to think about it, honestly. I scares me a little to think how many of our opinions about the difficulty or viability of this or that is influenced by those two being available as preps, not to mention whoopaz.

Thoughts?
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby xspeedballx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:24 pm

Well I am of the opinion that if you are skilled enough to unlock quicksilver and reflex, then you are skilled enough to beat most combinations of hards without them. And if you can get Whupaz you tend forget you have it and to use it(do it all the time). As for there general strength.. I am going to say I think we circle around a confirmation bias on this one again. They are strong. They are strong enough to help me make up for tons of mistakes and still win. I eke'd out the skill to get acquire them so they are helping me eke out wins on hard modes here and there. Once you are good and great at the game(as many of the frequent commenters/discussers are) they seem ridiculously overpowered because they easy mode already efficient strategies(honed from purist runs and other such challenges). A lot of things in the game I feel fall in this design area.
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Yeah, you put it right.

Well, as a personal opinion, I'd love to see them available in the alchemy shops for a custom price (X gold + health/mana potion), and not as preps, since they equate to being able to prep 2 death protections on small items in addition to whatever else you're prepping, which also fuel the (current) trisword. Would make picking them up a meaningfull decision, remove a few guaranteed early trisword knocks, and the newbies/casuals would still have Whoopaz as an autoprep...

But that may be just me.
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby xspeedballx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:50 pm

Your idea has merit. However we circle to the problem, newbie casuals are not likely to have whupaz. I slammed through the alchemist quests on my current profile but I had done them before. #5 and #6 are still pretty rough for someone without a good grasp of intermediate mechanics.

I would also fear if it was gold+potion, you are harming the potion shop. Because in general a quick silver is always more valuable than a health potion. Hard modes I usually have gold to spare. So you are unlikely to use a potion shop for anything but the "big 2." Except in corner cases. Same problem different place essentially.

I think the real answer(and oddly enough makes it harder to get them in the first place) is to make it so they count against "Parched" AND up the prep cost some. Late game when you have infinite money it doesn't matter, but little does other than personal skill and I think that is ok. Midgame it makes them a harder choice for if you really NEED them for what you are about to attempt.
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby paplaukes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:36 pm

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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:50 pm

I'd limit the amount of potions you can carry into battle. Leave it at 2 and make players make the choice between those two and regular health and mana.

Upping the amount to five after you've finished some quests is a flat out buff, basically turns the game to easy mode as soon as you unlock it.
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby paplaukes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:59 pm

But isn't it up to the player whether to go after the easy mode? One can always blow 150g on preparations if they want an easier run. Also, even if you prep all of the potions, does it make Vicious dungeons easy? Or even some Hard ones?

I try and avoid grabbing more than 3 potions per run, that way I can fit all the usual preparations to 1 item slot - 2 default potions, 1 extra, 10% attack from BS and a Compression Seal of whatever I chose as a starter item.
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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:49 pm

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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:51 pm

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Re: The high end potions and the difficulty curve

Postby FDru on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:25 am

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