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QCF Design Community • View topic - Rambling


Rambling

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:06 pm

And again - all you say is true. But I'm not saying that the game is too easy, or that there'd be anything wrong with where the game is once you know enough - the way it was concieved. Vicious mode freaked me out because, if not clearly separated from the regular game, it caters to this "elitist" mentality. Not necessarily intentionaly, but in case you haven't noticed - I am not one of those guys! I don't need the game to be more challenging than it was to challenge me - sure I've played a long time and new content "vicious" created drew me, but I strongly thought that noone should feel that it's expected from them to do everything with the stats turned up to 11. Especially if they're struggling now!

I saw the sight of the forums flooded with strats needed to beat vicious and vicious discussions by the vets flash before my eyes and almost had a stroke. I wanted that effect documented even if it costs me reputation, because it's better if it costs ME reputation then if it costs the game reputation. I could've been more composed, but being genuine about it was the whole point. That's what the way of implementing vicious looked like to someone who's very, very, very annoyed at "vet mentality" that you find so appaling.

However, I'm 100% sure that the regular game is more challenging than was intended, in ways which weren't intended, which are detrimental and that the reasons for this are counterintuitive. And if I went on to explain it all over again for a 100th time, I'd be repeating myself, except I'd be repeating huge time consuming (to write and think up) textwalls of sincere analysis.
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Re: Rambling

Postby xspeedballx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:29 pm

You know what Lujo. What you just wrote has been one of the most coherent and respectable wall of text you have posted about the "Vicious" badge and other recent discussions. As for feeling required. I get it. Agreed. Achievements should cover it(also achievements would be more visible to others any way to show off your brand of awesome). Trying to capture your feeling? I get it. I still think your reaction was terrible(in the expression of it) but I get it.

As for the regular game being more challenging than intended? Dislekcia seemed to more or less just agree with that statement as well. I am curious how UI, and information presentation improvements are going to improve that(I am genuinely curious, not skeptical). I wonder if a blog write up on that might be a good idea if it is still going to be a while before we can feel the effect. I CAN say things like showing actual HP left after attacks and actual hp/mana gains for potion had a huge effect on my play so I understand why that might improve a lot of the fears of newbies picking up the game.
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Re: Rambling

Postby gjaustin on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:32 pm

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Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:45 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Rambling

Postby q 3 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:02 pm

For what it's worth, my own whining is usually directed at making the game easier (or at the very least, tweaking overly powerful features but compensating with buffs elsewhere). It's always a sad moment when some interesting, powerful strategy gets overly nerfed so that it's not merely "not overpowered" but not even much of a strategy anymore (I really miss Mana Leak). I even feel kind of guilty about the Absolution nerf, because while it would probably have happened sooner or later anyway, that stupid video didn't help. The point was to make other strategies better so that I wouldn't have to scum so much. :twisted:
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Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:09 pm

It's the old "give a man a fish or theach a man to fish" thing. My adjustment calls are often immidiately obvious in negative effect, while the long term benefits usualy aren't readily apparent. I actually learned this from the devs ^^

And the vid managed to not render a whole 5 minute chunk in the middle of it agan, which is why I scraped the first one :(
Will be up tommorrow I suppose...
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Re: Rambling

Postby The Avatar on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:01 pm

I like a challenge, and vicious mode has supplied it, but overall, I agree that the game should be easier.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Rambling

Postby ChasGB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:36 pm

Last edited by ChasGB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:50 pm

I agree that vicious should be either dropped or drastically nerfed before release, it was wildly borken when it was first introduced and it never stopped being broken.

I think many players have gotten used to the new 'normal' and forgotten that vicious was never meant to be a part of the game, but 'post-post-game' content, as (i think) disleksia put it.

I wouldnt like to see the game become 'easier', simply flatter in it's structure. More incentive to explore the dungeons in different ways can add replay value just as much as adding more and more tiers of difficulty. Easier to balance too.
Last edited by Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:51 pm

Honestly, I think that until the devs remove Vicious completely, and we see unbalanced stuff in the cold light of HARD difficulty, I doubt many players could be convinced that things need nerfing.
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