Dwarves. Just dwarves. Or Dwarfs.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:51 pm
Anyway, my PQI has been throwing dwarves at me in noticable (alarming?) quantities, so much so that they were a key player in making PQI very grindy. And the absolution nerf was hailed as a terrible insult to all of dwarfdom, as if sucking mechanicaly entitled them to mound of cheeze. I know they've been complained about, changed and reverted and all that, but let's see about the little bastards one more time. I'm generaly godawful at proposing buffs, but let's try this.
What are they good for?
1) Rogues. So is everyone else. Still, they make good, moderate Rogues, ones I can get behind and not feel bad about it.
2) B2P - well, since B2P can't be prepped, and theyre useless for most spellcasting without it, this means Bloodmages or bust. They do make awesome bloodmages, because they're actually better for Sanguine than for B2P itself (you need 3 conversion bumps to cast one more B2P, and a whooping 6 for two more wihch then gets you a second fireball).
3) Resist stacking - but as Darvin has noted many times, damage is the king of that game, so humans and orcs beat them at it, as do halflings and gnomes due to the dumbsword.
4) Healthmonstering - well, they're not even very good at it. Sure their bonus really kicks in at higher levels, but, to be frank, if I needed to leverage a big bunch of health I'd go with halflings for the potions. They suffer the same problem as elves here - sure they can get a big bunch of health/mana but recovering all of that is a pain. If you can get a decent number from other sources, having acess to loads of potions is just plain better. Now, I'm not saying dwarves aren't good healthmonsters, they are, but when you do the math - if you'll ding as much as a healthmonster you might as well go with spellcasting, and if you're going for lategame health in general, you might as well go halfling or resists. Don't hotly dispute this, please - it can be, but either math or metrics say otherwise.
5) Drac worship - now there's somethign they're actually good for. They can always pick up a bunch of sanguine and not feel it, make good use of all his boons and all that. GG worship too - if you're looking to use protection, you'll get loads of health.
6) Naga Cauldron and Avatar's Codex - seriously, they're really good with dwarves. But they're vicious rewards. See the edit below.
That's all I've got. Half of their best uses have them as a second choice in a race with supreme cheeze as the first option, other half is either unpreppable or unlocks late. All in all it's too little.
So what's the deal?
1) Theyre too "back loaded" - the bonus becomes relevant too late in the run. Wouldn't be a problem except all their competition in the same playstyle vein isn't. Some of this is due to the trisword being what it is. Other "some" of it is Orcs and Humans.
2) People in general feel that you need a cheezy way to rack up tons of health to back their current bonus up, as with old Absolution. This is telling me that if they gave a front-loaded benefit on top of their current benefit people might play them. Would this break the Rogue? Certanly! Would I mind? No more than I mind the current Rogue as such, and I'd rather have a playable race than be held hostage to the Rogue.
3) Their conversion cost is obviously not reflecting the actual benefit to gaining a lot of health. Most people simply don't value it at where it is now. Now, DD players, vets included, me included, can sometimes be narrow minded fools, but we don't seem to think we're getting bang for buck.
4) There aren't enough features that let you turn health into a weapon. Ok, this sounds stupid and is wrong, but think about it - you can use mana in a variety of ways, damage is something you acquire and it takes no upkeep and there's loads of ways of applying it to enemies, potions do a million billion things - health has B2P, drac's boons, resist stacking - and that's pretty much it. Dwarves aren't supported by the inventory system well enough! Or so it seems, or at least not in any "here's a blunt object" unmisunderstandable way other things are.
EDIT: 4.5) Caveat - Fire Heart is good with them, obviously, and so are the Naga Cauldron and the Codex. But two of those are post-game vicious rewards, and dwarves you practicaly start out with. Sure, they work wonders with dvarwes, but they're too little too late, before you get a chance to get them you've allready messed the PQI up terminaly. And the whole "a guide with a dragonshield in it" argument.
So, further thoughts? I don't want to rush my suggestions, because as I've said, I can spot nerf bait a mile off, but I tend to mess up with buff sugestions. What would make YOU consider them?
What are they good for?
1) Rogues. So is everyone else. Still, they make good, moderate Rogues, ones I can get behind and not feel bad about it.
2) B2P - well, since B2P can't be prepped, and theyre useless for most spellcasting without it, this means Bloodmages or bust. They do make awesome bloodmages, because they're actually better for Sanguine than for B2P itself (you need 3 conversion bumps to cast one more B2P, and a whooping 6 for two more wihch then gets you a second fireball).
3) Resist stacking - but as Darvin has noted many times, damage is the king of that game, so humans and orcs beat them at it, as do halflings and gnomes due to the dumbsword.
4) Healthmonstering - well, they're not even very good at it. Sure their bonus really kicks in at higher levels, but, to be frank, if I needed to leverage a big bunch of health I'd go with halflings for the potions. They suffer the same problem as elves here - sure they can get a big bunch of health/mana but recovering all of that is a pain. If you can get a decent number from other sources, having acess to loads of potions is just plain better. Now, I'm not saying dwarves aren't good healthmonsters, they are, but when you do the math - if you'll ding as much as a healthmonster you might as well go with spellcasting, and if you're going for lategame health in general, you might as well go halfling or resists. Don't hotly dispute this, please - it can be, but either math or metrics say otherwise.
5) Drac worship - now there's somethign they're actually good for. They can always pick up a bunch of sanguine and not feel it, make good use of all his boons and all that. GG worship too - if you're looking to use protection, you'll get loads of health.
6) Naga Cauldron and Avatar's Codex - seriously, they're really good with dwarves. But they're vicious rewards. See the edit below.
That's all I've got. Half of their best uses have them as a second choice in a race with supreme cheeze as the first option, other half is either unpreppable or unlocks late. All in all it's too little.
So what's the deal?
1) Theyre too "back loaded" - the bonus becomes relevant too late in the run. Wouldn't be a problem except all their competition in the same playstyle vein isn't. Some of this is due to the trisword being what it is. Other "some" of it is Orcs and Humans.
2) People in general feel that you need a cheezy way to rack up tons of health to back their current bonus up, as with old Absolution. This is telling me that if they gave a front-loaded benefit on top of their current benefit people might play them. Would this break the Rogue? Certanly! Would I mind? No more than I mind the current Rogue as such, and I'd rather have a playable race than be held hostage to the Rogue.
3) Their conversion cost is obviously not reflecting the actual benefit to gaining a lot of health. Most people simply don't value it at where it is now. Now, DD players, vets included, me included, can sometimes be narrow minded fools, but we don't seem to think we're getting bang for buck.
4) There aren't enough features that let you turn health into a weapon. Ok, this sounds stupid and is wrong, but think about it - you can use mana in a variety of ways, damage is something you acquire and it takes no upkeep and there's loads of ways of applying it to enemies, potions do a million billion things - health has B2P, drac's boons, resist stacking - and that's pretty much it. Dwarves aren't supported by the inventory system well enough! Or so it seems, or at least not in any "here's a blunt object" unmisunderstandable way other things are.
EDIT: 4.5) Caveat - Fire Heart is good with them, obviously, and so are the Naga Cauldron and the Codex. But two of those are post-game vicious rewards, and dwarves you practicaly start out with. Sure, they work wonders with dvarwes, but they're too little too late, before you get a chance to get them you've allready messed the PQI up terminaly. And the whole "a guide with a dragonshield in it" argument.
So, further thoughts? I don't want to rush my suggestions, because as I've said, I can spot nerf bait a mile off, but I tend to mess up with buff sugestions. What would make YOU consider them?