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Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:31 am
by GoatBot
Discussion - Damage Control

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:35 pm
by Darvin
Thief Silver displays lvl2 monster locations from start

Long overdue and much appreciated.

Players no longer level up while dead

Okay, what? I so want to hear the story behind this one!

Most undead creatures are now bloodless

Dracul's piety hit for killing undead should probably be dropped to compensate, since there was always the presumption of +2 or +3 piety from lifesteal to offset the rather steep -5 penalty. Now that you aren't getting piety and undead cannot be farmed to fuel your boons, Dracul's power is substantially reduced on undead-heavy dungeons. We don't want to go back to the old "crypt" effect, and any balance-tweaking on Dracul's end should be more general.

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:55 pm
by Lujo
Like the bloodless thing on undead, in my experience Drac and sanguine were jarringly good, and my Drac worshipers were not really taking either the prep or undead killing penalties seriously.

I do have an UI suggestion - what would help IMO would be if the different buildings had visible labels that needed no mouseover. So you could see where the "Blackmith" preps are, and where the "elf", "dwarf" "guild" and so forth preps are without mousing over, selecting anything or having to know them by art (especially for race/class combos which change artworks depending on when you select what).

EDIT: Somtehing like this:

Image

Image

EDIT2: And obviously moving the blacsmith preps a little bit top and right to not have a cluster of preps right next to each other wold help as well...

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:15 pm
by harfatum
Lujo, I had suggested that in another thread and am very happy that you thought of it as well and mocked it up!

I think there should be a checkbox for "show labels" to enable that permanently/at any time.

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:18 pm
by Lujo
Cool and ty! Should be pretty handy for touchscreen interfaces as well. Nice balance between the old and new, and all that...

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:40 pm
by Darvin
Like the bloodless thing on undead, in my experience Drac and sanguine were jarringly good, and my Drac worshipers were not really taking either the prep or undead killing penalties seriously.

The problem I have with that is that undead presence varies dramatically by dungeon, so it's a poor factor by which to balance Dracul. I feel that being able to work around undead killing is in line with what happened to all the deities in the beta - you generally can get them angry so long as you counter-balance it with what makes them happy.

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:02 pm
by Ach Wheesht
The new assassin gold is...interesting. Having binlor is great. Having Draugr spawn undead monsters isn't, especially when Dracul's about.

I guess the focus is now less on draculs blood abilities and more on binlors knockback boon?

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:12 pm
by Naoya
Those new icons are neat. I really love them, makes popcorn farming/poison fighting much more comfortable.

I guess bloodless undead make sense. Though like Darvin said, this could make dracul a rather suicidal choice on undead heavy maps. Less piety, more pietyhits.

The thief silver change is nice and was really, really, needed. It was doable before, but now it's a little bitt less dependant on lemmisi luck. Trying to find them -and- the statboosters was annoying as heck.

I like the changes to assasin gold. It's cool that you are including the miner bombs more - they're awesome items.The challenge also requires slightly more planning now.

I guess the focus is now less on draculs blood abilities and more on binlors knockback boon?


Not really, Dracul still pretty much cracks the challenge. Bloodtithe is now way better than bloodhunger, tho .

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:13 pm
by Lujo
Darvin wrote:
Like the bloodless thing on undead, in my experience Drac and sanguine were jarringly good, and my Drac worshipers were not really taking either the prep or undead killing penalties seriously.

The problem I have with that is that undead presence varies dramatically by dungeon, so it's a poor factor by which to balance Dracul. I feel that being able to work around undead killing is in line with what happened to all the deities in the beta - you generally can get them angry so long as you counter-balance it with what makes them happy.


Well, true... Idk, the undead trait didn't mean much in general - it was important poison proofing for various places, gave the priest a class feature and drac a symbolic penalty. What it does now in case of all the bloodless ones is more interesting. It's not just drac it's affecting.

It's a big nerf to the vampire for one thing, which is fine by me since he was strong enough to beat VGT. It's a nerf to bloodsteal in genral, which again is fine by me because it's not a huge deal I think. It's a nerf to the bloodmage, but if it results in something being done about his burning stacking disadvantages, it'll probably be fine (and wraiths were huge ding fodder for him anyway). It's a nerf to sanguine, but I guess we all know how good that is.

But the most interesting thing about it is that it's a factual nerf to EM (which is good in my book), but such a nerf that it highlights something as a viable option. You can now choose to IMAWAL Undead without concerns about plantation bloodpools fodder. You don't get any anyway, so why not use undead for IMAWAL, and kick the other guys backsides?

I'd say it's interesting more than serious, and the things it hits are rather strong and probably won't be too hurt by it.

Re: Damage Control

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:08 pm
by The Avatar
Agreed. It's very interesting, and a long needed vampire nerf. Not sure what they did with assassin gold, but as long as those berserkers aren't both bloodless AND no exp.