The guild classes and my thoughts.

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The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby Leotamer on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:22 pm

(I don't know what else to call them, so I am just going by where they can be selected), They are insterting and feel like they could be good challenge/ fun classes, but it feels like they just get over locked. I don't want them to be remade, just explained or cleaned up.

The crusader- I really like him, and it makes sense in my head, one shot things to one shot more things. Scarred is one of the best traits in the game, although it doesn't make to much sense for him it does in a way (It is harder to get momentum if poison or curse stacks would make it so the emeny kills you and mana burn would stop you from using helpmeh or byceeps.) The thing I don't get is maryter. While Taurog or Dracul would be nice, he doesn't really need them. This is my reasoning for not liking it:
Taurog- His prep punishment is laughable.
Tikki Tooki- While it makes sense in a way, he doesn't get to much out of it. First strike maybe but more xp is a punishment more then a tool and posion is meh. To be fair, I do hate Tikki.
Dracul- I would have to try this, but it doesn't seem like a better chance of finding him randomly at any point of the dungeon would be worth not just preping him if you wanted him.
Earthmother- This alter can really help you out, since you can descerte it easily, greenblood convert out and half the plants don't even harm you, and entanglement could work to your advantage.
JJ- I don't use JJ, but I guess he could work out.
GG- Because more health is really going to help you out, and cleanse is really helpfully /sarcasm/, Humility might be the only one that you can get and feel good about yourself.
Binlor- Crusaders catapult, would be annoying hard to pull off unless their is something I am missing.

I just don't get it, the crus normally doesn't play a very religious game. It has some perks but not really even to justifiably from where I am sitting.

Transmuter- Two things I would like to see :
Change dungeon lore to something that gives endiswall and decreases it mana cost.
Buff Inner focus slightly.

I tested it, purely using Lemmisi gives you two spirit swords at the cost of almost all the map being revealed, and it revealing key points of the map novel at best. Endiswall is more loyal to the aphla version, makes more sense lore wise, and gives him a more defining feature of starting out with one of the more useful starting gylphs. The biggest worry is Binlor Trans-muter but that is only a big problem if you decrease the mana cost to low, because that is how far his synergy goes.

Other then that, think about this, minumin conversion cost is 80 to my knowledge. You have to cast 27 spells for one spirit sword. It doesn't need that big of a buff but 27 spells is a bit much.

Tinker- Really no compiants, he is well designed. he is a good class to money grind with and would require a reworking if he was to be one of the better classes since he is designed around shopping with is random. The only one I don't have an complaints about.

This is just my noobish opinion.
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby Lujo on Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:32 pm

Edited out for completely missing the point.

EDIT: Well, that was being diplomatic, edited because it could be misunderstood and I don't want to get banned before I get a chance to get feedback on the Drac vid. Am making a video on the explorer's guild classes right now.
Last edited by Lujo on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby booooooze on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:46 pm


Only the fact that it's but noon-ish here, and therefore I haven't had too much to drink yet, keeping me from going off on a Lujo-esque rant about Crusader-Tiki Tooki synergy. You can use the crusader as Lujo outlines, and he's quite good, but with TT it's borderline easy mode. Two hits of learning and you're just popcorn-ing your way up to some dodge and 3-ish poison stacks before you transfer out to someone else for the boss fight (or spend that piety on reflex and dodge potions, instead).

I'm playing through a new kingdom, and was just unlocking the half-dragon, and my second class (after the obvious goblin assassin) was a crusader, which I played with TT, and got "feeling parched" with ease.

Don't overlook TT: he's my favorite god, and one of the best.

@Lujo: class challenges would be great for them, but what would the rewards be? Locker spots? :D Just kidding. There wouldn't have to be rewards.

[I know, I know: "Goblin assassin!?! What's the point of playing with that walking cheat code?" It's my fourth time through the game, I'm just flying through stuff. I always hated dragon isles.]
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby Lujo on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:56 pm

When have I ever complained about the goblin assassin? :D

And, yeah, TT Crusader is probably the best monotheistic crusader out there, and with an Agnostic Collar (which would be in my locker if not for all the vicious junk) the other 3 altars are free piety & indulgences. Add a balanced dagger to the mix ;) I was just speculating on what was supposed to be the point of the crusader, and that seems to be it.

As for momentum being ignoreable :

Easisest non-vamp old VGT run ever, less than half an hour. (Though in retrospect it had both the old poison and the old trisword in there.) It's practicaly what boooooze said.

But the thing is still there - from the perspective of a non-vet those guys are terribly confusing, yet from the perspective of a vet, those 3 are something completely different. If not class challenges, then puzzles maybe?
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby The Avatar on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:05 pm

Agreed. The lack of practice/reason to use/confirmation I am using them correctly for these three classes kind of turns me off them (especially the transmuter).

I speak chaos.
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby Leotamer on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:36 am

- I am saying that the tinker is in a good spot. He isn't spectalur but he gets the job done.
- I would say that they are not learning tools, because I feel that the progressiveness of the main characters does that nicely. Just as a quick explain, the priest first shows you how to make use of potions, the monk then teaches regen fighting, and then the paladin teaches god based game play.
-I don't believe you quite get their ideas as well; If spirit sword was designed to only proc. by conseration, doesn't that make one his own abilities useless?
-The funny thing is that I the guild tier classes are not that easily obtained. While it is easy from someone with experience to play get them, however if I didn't know the assasian trick I don't believe I would ever got tikki (and as such crus.)

Boooze- Tikki just never made much sense. Kill things without being hit, but gives you posion? And he doesn't give you any bonus to damage from what I have seen. Taurog, while a bit noobish, just makes more sense.

And please devs, can you explain the official Crusader/ Trans-muter "build"
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby Lujo on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:01 am

You asked a good question, it'd be really interesting to hear what the devs had in mind with them...

I'm also making a series of short vids - Tinker, Transmuter and Crusader. Tinker and Transmuter allready done ^^ Figured Inner Focus out as well ^^

EDIT: Arrrr, I managed to record 3 vids and no sound on any of them... Awesome :( Well, another time then. In short:


Momentum - Get it up to 60%, hit the boss, kill 2 more guys, hit the boss, kill 2 more guys... Same as warlord in terms of damage, but with popcorn as fuel and repeatable good boons as a means to land hits.
Scarred - Immune to everything so you can clean popcorn with ease (incidental %res stacking madness probably unintentional)
Martyr - Guarantee you find one exploration and one boss-fight / popcorn munching god

Strat - Level up while slowing popcorn and ignoring momentum for the most part, then clean up popcorn while fighting the boss carefully to maintain your 60% damage boost. Incredible synergy with TT because he rewards killing any popcorn, helps you level, has potions for fighting the boss and you can also go poison for the resist stacking stupidity on top of everything...

Idea - would probably be easier to figure out if momentum had an actual cap at 60%.


Shops - 2 extra shops, what's not to like
Discount - Cheap items, easier buyout, TT benefits
Seals - 2 extra inventory slots, easy acess to bonus subdungeon, free expensive item
Subdungeons - main thing, finding any of them early can win you the game, especially if you transmute the sword and shield from the blacksmith one.

Strat - Check the subdungeons out, prefferably by not wasting a transmutation seal, and then roll from there


LEMISI - Free scouting, guaranteed an exploration glyph and knowledge of what gods are in there and where they are
Spirit Sword - Every time you convert a glyph you get a largeish temporary damage increase, and you also get one every time you pop the threshold
Inner Focus - Glyph use means you can pop the threshold by converting anything if you pad your CP bar a little bit before converting

Strat - use lemisi to find glyphs and gods efficently, choose the right deity or deity progression. Spam glyphs while you explore for the first treshold, after that convert glyphs, or use glyphs for a bit of CP and convert conversion fodder to get free STR potions whenever you need them and level up efficently. All this lets you cut so many corners, and get so much piety that it can get you incredible wins.

Overall theme
- they're all explorers, and base around resource scouting, acquisition and all that. Also timely and efficent use thereoff. They also work as rewards because they let you put all you've learned to good use.

Vids will be coming one of these days :)
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Re: The guild classes and my thoughts.

Postby booooooze on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:22 pm

Leotamer wrote:Boooze- Tikki just never made much sense. Kill things without being hit, but gives you posion? And he doesn't give you any bonus to damage from what I have seen. Taurog, while a bit noobish, just makes more sense.

Tikki is a childish god, you are his magnifying glass, and he's using you to burn ants. His poison is just adding insult to injury on the creatures you're slaughtering for him. He doesn't really give you enough poison to use it for regen fighting (debateable point, I know), and that's not how you should play with him, anyway, or he'll get angry. For 100 piety (20 lower level kills), he gives you 30 gold, +2 exp on everything you kill, and 10% dodge chance. I could be wrong, but I think +2 is the same bonus you get for killing something 1 level higher than you are. That's huge. If you happen to find WONAFYT or WEYTWUT as well, that's even more piety and even more experience. You can buy or prep bonus damage if you need it, but with the crusader you get it for free. Poison used to be a no brainer, now it's just kind of fun to grab a level or two before you swap out to someone else for the boss kill. Grabbing a dodge + reflex is probably a better use of the piety.
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