How to play the Transmuter?

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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Bloggorus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:53 pm

The tooltip for Transmuter definitely says Spirit Sword increases damage by your MAX mana.

I would say the devs have utilised the strength potion code for transumation, but popped in an automatic mana refill beforehand so it's always the equivalent of a full-mana strength potion.

From a player's perspective it works, but the code is a mash up of existing elements. Saves having to write a a custom function.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:03 am

Checked code, Spirit Strength does indeed take your current mana into account for its bonus (so it matters how much mana you have when you quaff a Strength Potion, for instance). But Transmuters get a mana refill when they hit a conversion threshold, which is why it didn't appear to matter what your mana was at...


I don't understand the difference between appearing to matter and actually mattering. I tested Spirit Sword and with a 1st level 10 mana human I got an extra 11 base damage for having having full mana at conversion, and I got the exact same amount for doing it at zero mana. Unless you are saying that the damage counter is wrong and that the true damage delivered is mana dependent.

Edit: just measured the damage on an actual monster and there is still no change between having full mana or zero mana. The optimal strategy would indeed be to empty your mana before triggering Spirit Sword. It kind of needs to be that way, because trading 12 mana for 13 damage is a terrible trade in most cases and would make Spirit Sword a disability.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Lujo on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:09 am

@Bloggorus: Yeah, you're right on that part (they also explained this coding thingy when they changed transmuter to regain mana, which is why I remembered). The tooltiop I was talking about is the one on the character prortarait in the dungeon (which still doesn't say max mana anywhere), but this is even better. (I think the might've changed it in the crash hotfix update, otherwise dislekcia would've probably remembered that it works off max mana).

Oh, and elven transmuters are hilarious, but play stangely to boot.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:32 am

Shows how damn hard it is developing in a collaborative environment. Nothing worse than inheriting someone else's uncommented code and trying to figure out what shortcuts they took where.

To the player it looks like it's based on max mana, when actually it's a full mana refill then strength potion. I imaging many mechanic work this way, it must be a complete mindf*ck trying to translate what players see into what the code shows is happening.

the badge, dwarven boots and extra attack boosts you can convert a glyph and suddenly have enough attack power to one-shot something three levels above you.

Elven Mystrera Transmuter first-level boss kill:
1) Prep the badge, dwarven boots, mystera and extra attack boosts.
2) Explore whilst casting glyphs. Time CP ticks with empty mana. Get refreshment, mystic balance and as many stacks of magic as you can. Do everything you can to hit 30 mana. If pactmaker shows up take spirit pact. Convert all useless items.
3) Cast getindere, regen.
4) Fireball boss six times
5) Convert glyph, fireball three more time from refreshment, repeat for all glyphs.
6) if that hasn't killed the boss, you still have a 300 HP first strike hit in reserve.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Lujo on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:47 am

Yep - plus, the richnes of info thing was really down on exploration guild classes since the only way to look at them was through a select classes screen (when transmuter puzzles are in you'll finally be able to see all 3 classes from the kingdom screen).

Anyway the elf thing doesn't work, since Spirit Sword doesn't stack. Someone was using goblins to lvl up and stack a huge spirit sword as windup and oneshotting bosses.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:50 am

Is that how it's supposed to go? why is it limited to one per level? That's very arbitrary.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Lujo on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:42 am

No, it's not limited to one per level, it just doesn't stack with itself. You can't convert a bunch of stuff to hit the threshold many times and get the bonus for each. Only one instance of the damage bonus at a time. The goblin strat just used levelups to replenish mana (and then the current auto-replenish feature was implemented, but stacking was removed).

If it could stack you could reeeely stack it high.
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Dreamdancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:39 pm

Lujo is right. If you're under the effect of 'Sprit Sword' you could trigger it a second time, but wont get the damage buff.
Before that patch one could really abuse it, here is the link to the topic:
http://www.qcfdesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2417
Goblin was nice due to the xp from conversion, with it one could refresh mana. But orc gave in the end more damage (422 at lvl1 :twisted: ). Think human should have worked too. Best result i got in 'Magma Mines':
One shotting magic immune boss at lvl 1. Then burning the physical immune (only one fireball). Then again using all ressources for 'Spirit Sword' stacking to kill the last boss (don't remember if it was also a one shot).

Somehow is miss it that 'Spirit Sword' doesn't stack. Sometimes 2stacks would be nice. But the massive stacking which i did in the three runs (linked in the above link) were quite broken.
Someone had the idea to use B2P for even more spells cast, think with that approach the damage would have get quite ridiculous
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby Lujo on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:11 pm

Ah! It was you! :D

Now I remember, you were sort of new to the forums (or have been more active at times I wasn't), and then all of a sudden you go "do I report this?" and break the Transmuter. Caused me a bit of a weird situation for me because after the fix I didn't have a clue how to play him - because we've all been doing it wrong all along :D
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Re: How to play the Transmuter?

Postby The Avatar on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:46 am

Yeah. That was great. I think it might be worth letting it stack twice.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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