Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby berpdreyfuss on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:22 pm

That would make very good tutorials! I will be definitely watching these.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:43 pm

I'm on a vacation and don't have access to my computer, but when I get back I'll start doing that. For now I'll have to leave it to text.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:47 pm

cool beans, if you do decide to do it, tell me before you make the recording so I can be sure to keep the video file :)
http://www.youtube.com/JayPlaysIndieGames
Check out the Desktop Dungeons Review, let's play, and tutorials :)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:55 am

Say Avatar, I've been meaning to bring this up - why are you riding him so hard on using potions to level? Or the fighter's DP badge? I mean, sure, in thory those things get stronger the higher level you go - at first glance.

But if you're a halfling blowing health potions early to score higher level kills and save popcorn and exploration is not such a bad move. As long as you're making IMAWAL kills a few level above because of it. Especially if you happen to be a class that doesn't rely on them for the endgame... I mean, you don't have to go overboard, but spiking stuff here and there is pretty much all halflings have (and it's not half bad). Ditto for going conversions crazy with Drac worshiping halflings - I've had plenty of fun with that...
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:21 am

In my play style, I save potions till the bitter end (because I get 3-4 level higher kills naturally), because it is more effective. The difference between a 4 level higher kill vs a 3 level higher kill is 6 exp. I usually go for the three level easy kill that uses no permanent resources and practically no tiles vs a 4 level higher kill that will cost me a hit on the boss for only 6 extra exp. This is all in vicious context of course, where you need your potions (usually), so it hurts to give them up for such menial reward.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:42 am

Part 29: Time to unlock your first vicious dungeon! You should be an elf. It is the best choice. Halfling is a bad choice for paladins. Don't be a handling paladin in future. Glowing guardian is great for Paladins. God preps sound far too scary. They're good, I promise. Why are you exploring the sun dungeon with full health? Weakening applies if you fireball them. If you have 13 mana the pendant is GREAT! That's 3 HALPMEH'S! Dracul is bad early game. You should have waited. Now you are in a dead end god with no piety and you will never be able to convert. Great. Just buy that pendant! Wow, that was an unlucky pull. The tormented one is wimpy, but he is anti-paladin. That troll heart was a good buy. Seriously, GET THAT PENDANT! It is super good to have 15 mana (6 mana potions and 3 HALPMEHs). You can only fireball the wraith to death if you stack burning. You gotta love the orb of lusory! You can use HALPMEH (Drac won't punish you for 0 piety). This isn't the most wonderful start, but it isn't bad. A bit exploration heavy. Yeah, illusions over level 4 are roadblocks. You won't beat that level 6. NO! ALWAYS ATTACK BEFORE FIREBALLS! That level 5 wraith is fine. You've already wasted enough exploration and you can just kill some popcorn. In the case, you were smart to convert WONAFYT. You don't have the exploration to popcorn bowl. NO! YOU WANT THAT EXPLORATION! KILL THAT WRAITH! And now you see! You won't get any piety, because you (UNFORTUNATELY) took Dracul early, but you can do whatever you want. PLEASE! NO MORE WASTING EXPLORATION! Dracul isn't that bad for Paladin's if you tkae him late, grab sanguine and then fight the boss. You should have killed that wraith forever ago. CYDSTEPP is very mediocre for non-warlords. HALPMEH is more useful than BURNDAYRAZ. You could kill that level 6 wizard. You're learning how to play halflings! Too bad you can't convert. JUST USE HALPMEH! You're going nowhere with Drac, so give in and use HALPMEH. YAY! Don't hate it, accept it. It is your penance for worshipping Dracul. You are REALLY low on exploration. Not the potions! It probably wasn't worth it, but you won't need them honestly. This isn't vicious. This low on resources I would try to avoid fighting animated armors, but your fine. YES! A better target. You need HALPMEH to regen fight. Yeah, you need level 6 to 7 or 7 to 8 to beat the tormented one. Take the indomitable first. Again, DON'T USE HEALTH POTIONS ON 3 LEVEL HIGHER KILLS! But you're a halfling. That level 9 is way too hard. Argh! MORE WASTED TILES! And the illusion. That hurts. No. A higher level illusion is way beyond you. It is suicide and will only waste tiles. YES! IT IS A BAD IDEA! Good usage of the fortitude tonic. Impressive. Nice kill on the goo. USE BURNING DISCHARGE! Argh! NO! That went downhill fast. JUST USE THE FREAKING HALPMEH GLYPH! You didn't need to do of that or blow more potions. A mana potion?! YOU NEED THAT! The health potions were okay as a halfling, but with the tormented one you need every mana potion you can get. That schadenfreude might just save your life. Use sanguine. You could kill the indomitable right now. I think you have some left in the sundungeon. NOT THE SCHADENFREUDE! Also, you don't need burning discharge on level 1 AA's. You can just attack and then first strike so save that schadenfreude. Why must you engage the tormented one first?! You should beat up the indomitable first and then come back with higher damage. You'll win if you get sanguine. Mana potions are definitely the better choice for the tormented one. YES! YOU SEE IT! And that will be a win. One minor thing: HALPMEH is better than BURNDAYRAZ if the hp it gives you is enough for 2 layers of death protection. Berserker is a great choice for this dungeon. I won't spoil vicious dungeons for you, but I will say one thing: Vicious halls of steel is the easiest.

KEY POINTS: Never forget all 3 uses of burning. They are all important. Worship Dracul late, not early. HALPMEH is better than BURNDAYRAZ for paladins. Waste less tiles. It's okay to throw away a little popcorn for a good amount of tiles.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:30 am

The Avatar wrote:In my play style, I save potions till the bitter end (because I get 3-4 level higher kills naturally), because it is more effective. The difference between a 4 level higher kill vs a 3 level higher kill is 6 exp. I usually go for the three level easy kill that uses no permanent resources and practically no tiles vs a 4 level higher kill that will cost me a hit on the boss for only 6 extra exp. This is all in vicious context of course, where you need your potions (usually), so it hurts to give them up for such menial reward.


A theoretical question - if this is so then why bother spiking anything before the boss? Because if saving potions for the end is 100% preferable to using the ocasional one to spike something during the leveling - then something is off. Then leveling is too easy. I'll have to think about this it's been bugging me and I can't put my finger on it. I'm not even sure what the question is except there is one - something like, if it's not worth spending a potion to get an edge while leveling, even if you convert for them, what does that say about other resource expediture or the process as a whole?
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:36 pm

It could be worth using a potion, but it is entirely avoidable and effective not to. In vicious. That could be a problem with difficulty, me having too high of a skill level, or me just hating to use potions. It depends on the class I suppose, but with a great class with great preps on the right monster you can get plenty high enough level kills so you can spike the boss. The fact is, IMO, potions are more valuable than 6 or even 8 extra bonus exp (which is can be obtained without using potions if you find the right target). I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but for me it is effective enough to level totally without potions and spike the boss. Sometimes it is even effective to level totally without potions and then beat the boss without potions.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:59 pm

The Avatar wrote:The fact is, IMO, potions are more valuable than 6 or even 8 extra bonus exp (which is can be obtained without using potions if you find the right target).


The Avatar wrote:For me it is effective enough to level totally without potions and spike the boss. Sometimes it is even effective to level totally without potions and then beat the boss without potions.


This. There's something wrong here. Now, I've recently HP potion spiked the vicious Blah Blah to death with a non-priest halfling, so I know you can really get the results with a good enough end game potion spike, at least of a halfling (and there's classes who wouldn't want to spend potions earlier as well).

But using the advanced potions to facilitate silly level ups and get popcorn for later (STR, Dodge, REflex) used to be pretty silly. I think it's also why GG doesn't like potions in particular - if you load up on health early with someone who has a decent supply of potions you can do stuff. I blow them on bloodmages for B2P, I blow them on GG and Drac piety, and I beat bosses parched at times. So I know blowing one or two can't really hurt. Same with the fighter's DP. I'm also pretty liable to do it on cramped maps when I really want to conserve exploration (vicious especially).

But doesn't it sound strange that blowing them early can be... inconsequential? If you're not gonna use them later, why not blow them sooner? It's not the XP it's the exploration primarily.

And to you in particular - remember the occasional time I make you go :shock: "How in the world did you do that?" with silly/unreasonable victories?. Trying out stuff like this is the answer, I think. You make me go :shock: when you play the "proper" game to perfection, though :oops:
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:13 pm

It is all quite variable, and that's the biggest problem. Sometimes it is worth it to blow one to conserve exploration (as you might with a monk, per se). On the other hand as an orc priest you will need those potions and exploration is a less valuable resource. It comes down to balancing 3 things here: potions, black space, and bonus exp/popcorn. You need to decide what is more important now. For example I was telling Jay he should have killed the level 5 wraith and harvested some popcorn, instead of using exploration to find a target.

So in conclusion, to figure out whether you should use a potion, think about 2 things: what is my alternative, and will I need this potion later. I hope that helped.
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