Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:41 am

Wow... I have a lot to catch up on. Here goes!

Part 12: Gnome thief... interesting. The common thief choice is Halfling (although you don't have them) because thieves are usually fighters (even if they can be anything). Lucky find on GETINDARE. PISORF is worse than GETINDARE. Weakening reduces the base damage by 1. Kill weakeners in less than one hit (unless it is a first strike hit). DO NOT GET WEAKENING. Goblins have first strike too. PISORF should be used to shove stuff into walls or other enemies. If you lose the game it is pointless to fight Mischief. If you had one it would have gotten you a new god. They really should make mischief disappear if you lose the game. It is confusing. Bloody sigil is best use early to regen fight with BURNDAYRAZ. Late game the -10% is too painful, although it makes GREAT conversion fodder. You state that you aren't going to use LEMISI now and then pick it up. If you're not going to use it, then DON'T PICK IT UP! Pick it up later unless you find something better in shops. This is especially key once you get more preps. With PISORF, the enemy will got through the wall. If it doesn't move and it takes damage it hit a monster. Vine Form is a great boon early (levels 1-5 maybe) with even a few levels because of the extra health too. The Earthmother loves IMAWAL and dislikes ENDISWAL. She also provides a free IMAWAL (0 conversion points) upon worship. You jumped ship to a lower level monster when you had a higher level one without checking whether you could beat the stronger one. The earthmother is a literal piety farm. Wow. Even 15:00 minutes in it looks like you are set up to destroy the boss. With Gnomes and Halflings you should leave glyphs on the ground if you think you will use them (anytime throughout the whole run) and pick them up when you need them. You chose a mana potion over one of the earthmother's boons that could have made the fight winnable sans potion. Why did you give up on the snake? It was a solid kill. You keep forgetting about monster first strike. Make sure you check for it; it is one of the most annoying traits. Always attack before fire with a thief or you'll lose the 40% bonus. ALWAYS! That would have saved you one mana potion, although EM's boons (which you keep forgetting to touch or examine) would have saved you all 3. Entanglement costs half an IMAWAL and would have given you that kill vs the first striking gorgon. Never forget your god. You'll always regret it. Remember conversion. It is an incredibly useful power later on. The glowing guardian is probably not a good idea for a gnome or halfling, especially a thief. You talk about how great GG is, but you are undervaluing EM. You need to start paying more attention to divine decisions. You should always be thinking about your god, because it will help a lot. You leave a booster on the field for FOREVER and it was the difference between 4 mp and 5 mp mana potions. It is okay to use potions under GG, just make sure you have the piety to afford it. Nice job thinking. You started paying more attention to what you were doing and realized you were throwing away exploration by the bucket. You wouldn't IMAWAL a level one because it was in a hallway. If there is a fairly clear path around that hallway (as there often is) it is okay. WHY DO YOU KEEP FORGETTING MONSTER FIRST STRIKE? NOOOOOO! You used a potion that did nothing when you could have killed two pieces of popcorn and leveled up for the kill. You really need to figure out all of your potions before blowing potions, especially divine options, because you've now blown 4 or 5 potions totally unnecessarily. You said you hated to level up for the kill. Why? Sure you could have killed the level 9 goblin with that mid fight level up, but that's not a huge loss. Lol, the sound is off. You talk about killing a meat man before we see it. Nice job plant wiping. You should do it before every level up. Always kill all killable plants (in most levels they can drop spoons!). DO NOT USE PROTECTION FOR FIGHTS ANYMORE THAN POTIONS. While it is fine in normal dungeons (at least at a high enough level of play) it should be preserved for the boss. The same applies to blood swells and other divine restoration. You will need it in later dungeons. ACK! Absentminded play. AVOID IT MORE! One level of burning removes 1 level of regeneration, but so does 10000 levels of burning. The key is whether burning is there or not. More potions? That was painful to watch. That was something like the 6th potion wasted. Under the glowing guardian. THAT IS BAD. You are right to be certain of victory, but that shouldn't be an excuse for sloppiness. Sorry if I'm being a drill sergeant, but building good habits vs bad habits is HUGE in this game. When fighting the boss always use god healing over potions. Then (if you don't waste potions fighting monsters) you will get the feeling parched badge.

Sorry, that commentary is a bit harsh, but the one thing I can't stand is pre-boss potions. It really wasn't that bad, my standards are just ridiculous.

KEY POINTS: NO PREBOSS POTIONS. Always double check monster traits (especially first strike). You need to evaluate all options before using potions or even fighting a high level guy. You could have had feeling parched...

I have a very full week, so I'll have to catch up later.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby berpdreyfuss on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:46 am

Just a small thing. Could you add a description to the videos where you just summarize what kind of run you were doing?

As for length, I think half an hour is already on the long side but I don't see how you could edit it. I think one video should be an entire run just like you're doing it right now.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:57 pm

The Avatar: I really do need to figure out the use of all the gods. It is something I need to work on. Right now I consider Earthmother a great way to start with a different god at 50 peity. I am sure her abilities are very useful, I just haven't figured out how yet.
LOL sorry about the sound being off, I am still playing with my recording setup, I will get it right someday soon I hope.
Hmm I don't remember this run 100%, but I believe that I wasted potions largely due to undervaluing the mana potions in this particular run + having lots of them. I don't remember saying I hate lvl up kills but if I did it was a foolish choice of words. I am trying more and more to use that as the powerful technique it is.
Anyway I greatly fear when you watch episode 17: Hubris

Berpdreyfuss: What kind of description would you like exactly? Do you mean class/race or just which dungeon/quest I am going on. This would be no problem for me to do and sounds like an excellent idea :)
I don't want to write whether it is a win or a loss in the description for obvious reasons, and all puzzles and challenge runs will be labeled as such in the title.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby berpdreyfuss on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:05 pm

Yes, both, which dungeon or quest you're playing and the setup: class/race and maybe later items or gods you prep if it changes the flavour of the run. That would be nice.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:00 pm

@JayPlaysIndieGames: Using potions because you have a lot of them is throwing away your racial bonus it is almost the same thing as going hoarder (no conversions), except you lose the feeling parched badge and get more kills.

Part 13: This is one of the easiest runs ever. Berserker is so perfect for this run it is hilarious. Unlikely heroes is not as strange as it seems. Elf fighters and warlords are very good combinations. The best early game locker is either pendant of health or fine sword. Human berserker is the better pick, as you will/should be regen fighting. Berserkers are always best as humans/orcs. Those are all low cost preps. Wow. That was a SUPER LUCKY START. Taurog is the best berserker god 99% of the time. Their synergy is incredible. BICEPS is fine to use with Taurog. Each cast is only -2 piety (half a kill) and it seriously helps in combat. The sword and shield are Taurog's best early game boons. Then take whichever resistance will be more useful, and then finally the remaining item. Your beginning was a bit exploration heavy. As a basic regen fighting formula, just multiply dealt damage (don't forget resistances affect this) by level. If your number is higher than theirs it will work. For the berserker you should go sword or shield, then the one you didn't pick, then the helm, and last the armor. The berserker should always target magic damage target. You are born to destroy them. Since berserkers are born regen fighters, damage is significantly better than health. NO MORE THINKING FOR YOU? OH NO! Actually, it probably won't matter in this case, but for later dungeons always be on your toes. You never know what us coming for you. Take the helm before the armor. With 65 magic res, targets even 6 or more levels higher will be easy targets. Stick with Taurog to the end, or maybe convert into dracul for bloodswells. The berserker is a very simple yet effective class. Prepping Taurog can get you through most dungeons as this guy, but I don't recommend doing this. It is boring for everyone. When clearing level 1 do this order: gorgons, other first strikers, anything (although you should do magic guys because it gives 4 more piety with Taurog. You shouldn't switch to dracul. The unstoppable fury is great, and you will be able to use potions. If you want to switch to dracul. You are wasting subdungeon exploration. You should't, even though this should/will be a blowout with feeling parched possibilities (that should be easy to get if you see it. HINT: REGEN FIGHTING!). Told you, this run is a joke. The flying dots denote where he is within hidden territory. That was an unfortunate blink. Just because the boss blinked away doesn't mean you should give up the fight. You should get to his position ASAP before he can regen further. Even though sanguine lowers maximum health (seriously it's only 5), it should have been taken twice. Your magic res was already maxed at 65%, so you wasted 40 piety on blood shield. That may have been a lucky start, but this is also a super easy run. This combines to make a ridiculously great and easy win. Those plants really are a pain in the ass. Good job, that was a nice win.

KEY POINTS: There really aren't any except general berserker tips. GREAT JOB, YOU'RE AWESOME!

Berserker tips: Always take human or orc. Prep Taurog. Focus on regen fighting very high level magic monsters. You can and should save BICEPS and or GETINDARE, or even BURNDAYRAZ for regen fighting. Even under taurog.

Part 14: This ought to be interesting. Your first two boss run. The boss match-up is strange though. Aequitas is not the normal version, but a way lower damage version that you can use for bonus exp and should be killed first at a low level. Heck, he can be killed at level 5 or lower rather easily using a mid fight level up or two. One recommendation is that you should check the dungeon's panel before attempting the run. It will help. Regen fighting against fast regen guys is rather impossible. You forget you can pre-stack burning for 6 damage fireballs at level 1. As a general rule, head for the glyphs as a wizard. HELLO! THERE'S A SUBDUNGEON! NONONONONO! You don't have to fight the guardian. The way you unlock most gods is reaching the altar. Wow, this subdungeon is knows as el potion loco. There is a secret bonus if you kill the goblin first. That's the best subdungeon is the game. You are looking for a level two when there is a killable one in the middle of the screen. Seriously. The tower of goo is actually one of the most annoying random bosses in the game. It'll screw a lot of runs, especially as a berserker. EM is a pretty good god for wizards. Greenblood and Vine Form are both great, front-loaded boons. Don't get EM later. She is a front-loaded god, and her only good late game move is plantation+clearance. And now, 20 tiles later, you notice the level two. Fail. One level above may be fine, but it is not ideal. Do not setttle for it, especially when a two level higher kill was easily in your reach. You are sacrificing power for convenience. That is a BAD habit. Don't feed it. You are learning to use the glyph donation power. Good job. Wait, how do you have 5 potions? You should only have 4. Is that the game compensating for your first 2 boss dungeon? NO! DON'T USE THE POTION! YOU DON'T NEED IT! Well, you abandoned the fight, but with more conversion bringing you to 20 mana you could have won the 4 level higher kill without a potion or anything but some burning stacks. Nice catch, you really are improving. WAIT! NOOOOO! You blocked yourself out of the altar for the magic god. Whatever. You can get it later. You converted the 0 CP IMAWAL glyph over the 100 CP IMAWAL. That is a bad choice. You could have killed AEQUITAS with that mid-fight level up. Stack 6 burning, get 20 MP, 4 fireballs for 72 damage, attack for 6 damage discharge then 76 damage from more fireballs. THAT IS A KILL! Level 4 killing level 10 with an exp boost is 63 exp. SIXTY-THREE EXP! That is level 4 to level 6 with 18 exp and half the map left over for one boss. A double level is great. You just said you should't look at the boss when you should have started that boss fight 2 levels ago. Lol. You are forgetting MANA BURN, the bane of all wizards. Remember to fill mana. You are realizing the problem, but you must work to fix it. Told you not to forget mana burn. Now you have to blow a totally unnecessary mana potion. With burning stacks your level 6 fireball can do 36 damage 36x4=144 and with one attack you kill. Never forget burning stacks. You aren't using BICEPS. You should have converted it, it's an extra fireball, and you wouldn't have had to convert 4 or so potions. WAIT NO! AGH! NOT THE POTION! Dang. You didn't need to use that mana potion. You should have immediately gone and killed the second boss. You are getting a mid-fight level up. Good, you saw it. You're using IMAWAL for the boss kill? Why? That healed the boss totally unnecessarily. The extra exp is useless if it is the final kill you need! That costed you 2 mana potions. Okay, I'm going to kill the commentary since you won. Good job! If you wan't to win the Bezaar quest, take a thief in there.

KEY POINTS: Burning stacks are great for power kills, you could have gotten lots of better kills with it. Remember mana burn. Make sure of all of your options before using potions. Less absentminded play.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Naoya on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:51 pm

Just a little thing I noticed in part 19: You don't use GETINDARE as often as you can.
GETINDARE is useable after every melee attack, so even if its just something like a cultist or a lv 1 goat, you should still use it as long as you have black space - that's free dodgechance you'll get ;)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:58 pm

Thanks for more tips avatar as always :) I think I do need to work on my glyph use in general, but I am getting better at it. As for potions, I will probably continue to overuse them for awhile yet, but I will try and cut back :)
Yes I am still playing a bit absentmindedly, hopefully time will fix that.

Naoya: Thanks for the feedback. I think this goes under "absentminded play" as The Avatar would put it. But I will be working on it especially now that I am starting on the harder dungeons.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:16 am

NOOOOO! My feedback for 15 and 16 just got deleted! Here are the key points:

15: BURNDAYRAZ always spawns, don't lock in on one way to do things--single-mindedness is devastating, scumming for a dodge is resource intensive and ineffective. Avoid it.

16: You should NEVER kill popcorn when it can be avoided (*cough* ENDISWAL *cough*), you don't need to buy out items till the end.

I'm so sorry it was lost. It logged me off when I was posting and I typed in my password wrong.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:18 am

Part 17: Wow, the name is scaring me. This could be painful. I'm guessing this is a loss in den of danger, and that is sad. Human or elf are both good for fighter. God preps are a very interesting prep. Some people love them, some people hate them. One thing they don't mention is the altar start right next to you. I always prep BURNDAYRAZ. Good job popcorn bowling. This is such a good start. Wow, you've been immensely lucky. Don't use ANY potions under GG. Enlightenment is only one way to use him. I rarely even get Enlightenment, because it cuts down on how many protections you can use. You get 5xYour level in starting piety. WONAFYT always places orthogonally before diagonally. The gorgon was such an easy kill. You've literally forgotten about your BURNDAYRAZ. That is AWFUL. I feel bad now. I said meat men are the best monk targets, because their low damage makes them prime targets for regen fighting. Really? You're exploring with a BURNDAYRAZ glyph and full mana. And NOW you remember. That cost you big time. Seriously, LESS ABSENTMINDED PLAY. Wow, beyond your ridiculous beginning this doesn't look too bad... Mystera is interesting. Ironically, she sucks with the wizard. Still, she is almost all upside for a dedicated caster (Refreshment is a super boon). Flames probably is her worst boon. Its drawback is extremely painful. Mystic balance is strange. It really depends on the class. Basically it moves every glyph cost two closer to five. You should keep WONAFYTing. NO NO NO! Popcorn bowling should include much more monsters. Popcorn bowling should be used all the way through levels 4 or 5. Don't use your DP. WHAT? Your 1 mana potion and 2 protections for a 3 level higher kill. That is a ridiculous waste of resources. Seriously, save protection for the boss. Are you trying to suicide? I just realized you forgot humility. Always take it at level 2. ALWAYS. Watch your boss be Bleaty or the tormented one. That'll teach you not to waste mana resources. Gah, still feeling the pain from that wasteful kill. Wow, this seems like a pretty straightforward win. But it isn't. Must be a nasty boss. Tower shield is an okay buy for a non-resist-stacker. Spread out your health and magic use. If you can kill in two hits, use GETINDARE, not an attack for the second hit. WHAT? YOU CONVERTED GETINDARE? Resistances are lame for non-stackers. GETINDARE IS WAAAAY BETTER! Okay, you are wasting exploration a good bit. NEVER fight same level enemies if you can avoid it. Do you know you have first strike against lower level enemies? Yeah, I just saw you waste a fireball. Now your converting POTIONS?! NOOO! Unless you're doing a parched run or get better at this game DO NOT CONVERT POTIONS! And then you forget burning pop off and take ANOTHER FREAKING PROTECTION?! This is so painful. Uh, you have been playing foolishly. Extremely foolishly and poorly. No offense, but this is riddled with very bad mistakes. WHAT?! You could have first strike removed a wraith and instead blew your DP! I'm going to have a heart attack at this rate. You keep saying things are fine as you further dig your own grave. IT IS NOT ALRIGHT! You are wasting all of your resources against the boss in avoidable ways! EASILY AVOIDABLE WAYS! Always use your excess mana and health before leveling. What the heck just happened? You could have fireballs and attacked, losing exactly 6 mana. Instead you attacked twice losing 35 hp and 18 mana! THAT'S MENTAL! Ouch. That's not fine. Frank is the toughest boss and you've already thrown away so much of your power. YOU CONVERTED YOUR POTIONS! Wow, this is a painfully flawed run. You are nowhere near winning. You spent the whole time saying it's fine and using that as an excuse to not worry about burning your game to the ground. You were forgetful, single-minded, and made incredibly bad choices. Seriously, this is the poorest run you have taped. I'm sorry I'm being so harsh and shouting, but it is good advice, not just anger--I promise.

If this is coming off as mean, please say so and I'll tone it down (even though some of the most important notes are the shouted ones and not all caps are shouts. Some are just emphasis). Seriously, the fact that I'm shouting is more an expression of how much I want to make the point clear than how angry I am.

KEY POINTS: Play the game as though every mistake will end your game, because in later levels they will, pay more attention, actually do the math, be much more hesitant to use one of resources (both material and divine), and always check all your options.

And you have first strike over lower level monsters.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:24 am

Wow, you've got my message before I posted it. I support going back for revenge. That's the spirit. Humans and elves are better fighters, but whatever. It's not like dwarves are bad fighters. Always prep fireball. It gets your game off the ground pronto, and you won't always be lucky enough to start next to it. Orange is Taurog. The colors are the same colors as you would think of for the god. Taurog sucks later, but your right--he kicks ass in normal and some hard dungeons. The tower shield is NOT incredibly valuable. It is good, but worse than most items unless you're stacking. Seriously, the fine sword or either pendant are better buys. I still don't popcorn bowl with Taurog. You have to cast it too many times
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