Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:49 am

The Avatar: I was kinda looking forward to your comments on part 15, but such is life: I wouldn't ask you to go through writing that twice. 16 Wasn't that difficult so no biggie.

As for 17 I would have disappointed if you didn't come down pretty hard on me. I knew I was playing badly as I was playing, and the title says it all. I thought I was to good for a normal dungeon, and it smacked me down hard for not paying attention.

The commentary I am looking forward to the most now is on 20 (I want to know what I did wrong there), 21 was kinda easy mode for that "hard" dungeon though so I feel that result was not really due to super play on my part, more "best preparation"
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:52 am

Sorry, I preposted my part 18 commentary here is it in full:

Part 18: Wow, you've got my message before I posted it. I support going back for revenge. That's the spirit. Humans and elves are better fighters, but whatever. It's not like dwarves are bad fighters. Always prep fireball. It gets your game off the ground pronto, and you won't always be lucky enough to start next to it. Orange is Taurog. The colors are the same colors as you would think of for the god. Taurog sucks later, but your right--he kicks ass in normal and some hard dungeons. The tower shield is NOT incredibly valuable. It is good, but worse than most items unless you're stacking. Seriously, the fine sword or either pendant are better buys. I still don't popcorn bowl with Taurog. You have to cast it too many times. ACK! Wrong button. I posted half way through. I only use BICEPS, GETINDARE, and occasionally BURNDAYRAZ with Taurog. You can get 6 swords at once. I promise. This ought to be a cakewalk unless you score the tormented one as your boss. Before you have some conversions and items under your belt under Taurog you are pretty much stuck with 1 level higher kills. You haven't quite come to terms with conversion fodder yet. You mention you don't need the bloody sigil, but its gold to CP ration is 1:5--an incredibly good ratio. Conversion fodder is the concept of buying items with high CP and gold to CP ratios to get extra conversions. You are next to a glyph, and worship Taurog--convert it and snag the shield. It is great early. Good, you saw it. It could have come earlier, but you are a relatively new player. Dang! You picked the wrong one! The order is Sword -> Shield -> Resistance items. Keeping ENDISWAL... is probably a good choice! Nice job! Unless there is a pressing need to convert it (which there isn't) you can just keep it if you need to get around stuff. As a general rule, the target order for a level up is poison or mana burner -> gorgons -> goblins -> anything left. Due to Taurog, magic monsters should also get some extra precedence. Thus the wraith is an ideal level up target. Converting into GG for Humility is not worth it because you cut out your possibility for using potions unless you jump back to Taurog. Oh dear. I'm hearing you form a very poor plan. SAVE THE HEALTH POTIONS. The correct time to convert from Taurog (or anyone) to GG is after you've used potions so you can get Protections too. Also, you can still use potions under GG with excess piety. Frankly, health potions for a 4 level higher kill is not smart. Even one potions is iffy and using your DP is just bad. Extra exp maybe, but at a high price. The plan may be cool, but it is not smart. I am raising my bar on potion usage. Only use 1-2 potions at max before the boss and only for 5 level higher kills. Finally! You converted the tower shield instead of the better item. You either learned or made a smart guess. Well, now you know that is good. Zombies are bad targets. If you want 2+ higher level kills, get something easy like a goat or gorgon. It's good to see you learning. You ponder using a potion (which is good--you should always consider all options), but make the right decision (well, most of the time). You've gotten much better at picking a target, but now you need to learn how to make the right combat and divine decisions. I'll be honest, you're improving. Hey! You learned to kill the goblin first! That's good (although the gorgon would have been better)! Lol, you met Bleaty. You basically have to accept you will not take a hit, so you have to get enough piety for 3 DPs. Nice job figuring that out. Uh oh, you miscalculated. You need 2 DPs. Mid-fight level ups don't matter vs bleaty if you don't have BURNDAYRAZ. And then you realized that! Wow, after the last run (during which your skills were looking grim), this is a practical miracle. Seriously, your realizations (while a little late) are almost all correct! This is great! Actually, since you're doing so well I barely need to watch right now, I'll use Bleaty to show you something. Imagine you didn't play Taurog and you've used mana potions to level because you've been undervaluing them. You can't hurt him and don't have enough mana potions to burn him to death. As of now, you have 2 bosses in your pool that require mana to beat (or GG, but that can be saved for later). There will eventually be 3, but while that number is small if you aren't prepared they can end your run almost immediately. Very well done! It's easy to play well with Taurog, but even still you are doing things much better. Pride may cometh before the fall, but after the fall you stood up pretty fast.

KEY POINTS: You played incredibly, Reign in even more on potion and DP expenditure for the purposes of leveling.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:30 am

Part 19: I'm getting close to caught up! I personally like elves more (much better leveling and whatnot) but gnomes are also great. There are far more than one more god. GG is actually a very god for Wizards (convert potions for piety and to drain glyphs), but not Gnome wizards. I just realized you wouldn't know this: LEMISI picks out key things (boosters, sub dungeons, altars, glyphs, and shops), so if you find it early it can be worth just grabbing it, using it a couple times and keeping/converting it. Ouch, you are blocked at every turn. Regen fighting mistake #1: Not keeping up burning. ALWAYS keep up burning whenever possible. If you have 6 (or 5 as a wizard) and he is not burned, burn him. It is also worth holding off on a fireball so you can use it after you attack and therefor remove your mana. Good conversion choice. A gnome wizard can afford to convert a health potion. You're going to want to convert out of GG so you can use your potions. I love spoons. With Bloody sigil and burning you can make your regen equal to a 2 level higher monster. ALWAYS KEEP UP BURNING! NOT AGAIN! DO NOT ATTACK UNLESS YOU CAN BURN. It is much more important than you give it credit for. Yeah, that's one of the 2 things that suck about humility (less health regen and certain glyphs weakened). Green is EM. It makes sense, right? It is designed to make sense, you do know that right? Good, you started popcorn bowling. I looked away when you picked up that WONAFYT, but you should have been using it constantly. Nice job conserving tiles. You are doing well. This is pretty standard. You just pick 2 level higher targets and remove them. I just realized you haven't used GETINDARE this whole time. Not even precasted (Wow, I must be getting tired). USE IT! Dodge change and conserving health is important. Wow, I think you forgot your GETINDARE too. You seem to have so many glyphs you are forgetting them. I've found 5 or so cases where you could have used GETINDARE and wasted tiles instead. YES! One of my lessons came through (mini-party): You can go around popcorn with WEYTWUT or ENDISWAL. You are smart to want to switch to EM. Those potions are very nice. Pacts cost piety and give a bonus when some trigger action happens. You need to stack burning more. Whenever you are only a few damage short of a kill, stack burning and try again. NO! NOT MORE PROTECTIONS! PLEASE NO! You could (and should) have stacked burning. WEYTWUT removes monster first strike. You can use it to get an extra strike on goblins, gorgons, and other first strikers. Wall gorgons and goblins. Seriously, it will matter later on, and I'm not just being ridiculous. While there are lots of small things you could do to improve your gameplay and lots of little tips and tricks to learn, you appear to have learned the basics. Now it's time to move on to HARD dungeons. Skill with the basics is not enough to plow you through these (until you get better). What you need to win hard dungeons is STRATEGY! Seriously, before you become good enough that hard dungeons seem joke-ish, you will need a proper strategy and you will need to learn how to use gods more effectively. Wow, I don't think you used GETINDARE this whole run. It's one of the best glyphs in the game and you haven't used it. You can kill a lot of low level monsters without taking damage. Lower level means it won't hit back if you one shot it (unless it has first strike). Eh, that was a foolish EM conversion. You had enough piety to wreck lord gobb with protections and that would have gotten feeling parched. It's a small thing, but why not. Did you just buy an item after you won? Unless you want to locker than do not do this. All gold you bring out is given to the coffers, but items are sold for half price, so you lose money when you buy stuff.

KEY POINTS: You've mastered the basics, so focus more now on identifying all options (especially divine, you forget those often), don't forget you can prestack burning, start scouting dungeons and don't expect to win your first run on most hard dungeons. You should see the boss and then strategize accordingly.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:44 am

interestingly enough I did decide to strike out into hard dungeons after this run.
I will keep the pact thing in mind, but I didn't understand the overheal. What does that do exactly?
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:00 pm

Overheal sets your health to 150% of your max hp (which is the cap hp you can reach using lifesteal). The hp is one-off as you can't regen above 100% hp.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby booooooze on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:25 pm

Avatar is much better than I am. Nonetheless, here's some notes (part 20):

- preps: 10% damage badge from the blacksmith is small, generally a better choice (I think) than the sword. In fact, I almost always take it. And if you're striking out into the unknown, don't get cocky, take the extra gold from the Thieves Den instead of bet on boss.
- why fireball something to death if you can getindare for less mana, and boosting your dodge chance?
- don't forget if you have full mana and are exploring, you're wasting tiles if you don't precast getindare or stack some burning on things.
- argh, don't convert either BURNDAYRAZ or GETINDARE.
- you don't want the spoon? of course you want the spoon.
- use the right-click or alternate targeting to check out monster abilities you're unfamiliar with.
- obviously gross oversight and waste of potions on the snake there, but you're aware of it. We all make mistakes.
- look at all the undead enemies. Switching to Dracul is going to be suicide.

It's your first hard, and the first dungeon you've played with a "trick". Not too bad.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby booooooze on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:54 pm

21:

- prep that burn salve! it's only 8. Hugely valuable.
- still wasting exploration.
- argh! don't IAMWALL an unslowed dude. You get 1 exp for walling something that's slowed.
- also, save your walling for later. at least lvl 4s.
- stop wasting exploration. WEYTWUT everything in sight.

It cuts off for me in the middle, not sure if it's youtube's problem or the upload.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Avatar: Thanks for the info

Booooooze: Any tips are appreciated, also it is good to get multiple perspectives :)
as for 21 it works fine from my computer. . .if anyone else is having this problem please tell me, maybe I will have to re-upload or something.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:01 am

Part 20: And now the real game begins! Hard missions are the meat of the game and are quite interesting and fun. The ironic thing is less or more bosses is not a good indicator of difficulty. The one with 3 bosses (rock garden) is the best. Okay, I'm going to be very meticulous here. Dwarf berserker is not a good combo, and not a good strategy for this dungeon. Since you have fine sword, the badge is the best. You might want to start using more preps, because it will help significantly. Especially god preps. GETINDARE! You are very lucky, sir. Remember, don't pick up glyphs until you use them. Cultists have revive. This is the single worst thing that a monster can have, especially since these ones level down. That wasn't a mage, it was a cultist. You need to read and examine your targets. He didn't even do magic damage. What are you doing? Stop just whacking cultists. Examine the ability to learn what it does, don't experiment with it. The witch has the most potent preps in the game. It's good you'll unlock her. Why would you BURNDAYRAZ when you can GETINDARE? It is strictly worse. Corrosion (like weakening) is permanent. Killing cultists is not smart. You just lower the exp you have available, because the cultists changed to same level shades--and that's better than a 1-level lower zombie. WHAT?! Precasting GETINDARE is BAD for the berserker. You need your regen fighting mana for a GETINDARE for the KILL, not the prestack, and fireballs so you can actually regen fight. Shades are very weak targets, but you need a good amount of map explored to fight them due to blink. You really should check what new things mean. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? First you convert BURNDAYRAZ BEFORE you started worship (throwing away 10 piety), and now you are going to lose because the boss ends up having an obscene amount of physical resistance. NOOOOOOO! YOU THREW AWAY GETINDARE TOO! That will hurt you so much. You're corroded. Told you it hurts. NEVER get corrosion or weakening. It always hurts in the end. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? STOP! You just did something you KNEW was a bad decision before you did it. SO THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT? You will need (at your skill level) every tiny little bit of resource you can get. Throwing away a health potion now (AND GETINDARE) can end your game. AND IT WAS FOR A 2 LEVEL HIGHER KILL! You need to start learning your way about the gods. It will help. Significantly. There are just as many enemies as normal as in all other difficulties. Eating weaklings vs exploration. Yeah, lifesteal sucks. Here's a tip: don't kill the goat until you have a good amount of cultists revealed. Popcorn should NEVER be same level. It hurts you, unlike lower level monsters. If you don't want to keep getting lifestealed, don't attack shades. That way they can't run into blackspace and lifesteal you AGAIN. The snake isn't going to work out. I saw it first. You really need to think. HE HAS POISON! That costs 2 more potions. THINK! You should have hit the gorgons first. They have death gaze. THINK!!! The sword is by far the worst item in your inventory. This isn't going to work out. You've already wasted 2 potions. You are destroying your own exploration when you hit those shades. It's all your fault those shades are there. First you killed the sacrificial goat, and then you attacked and sent the shades into your blackspace. There is no way this will work (called 15:00 before end). Wow, he blinked into the one unexplored square. And you wasted your death protection. Another nail in your coffin. You didn't even check the bosses abilities! Seriously, the first time you see any new boss or monster (and check the name to see if it is a different monster), CHECK IT'S ABILITIES. Hah. You totally had that coming to you. You should have checked the bosses abilities. You should have done that drac conversion. You would have almost won. It is definitely a loss. This run had plenty of poor play (contrary to your belief). As a bonus, I will analyze why you lost, and then the key points you need to improve on. The witch is great, but you have to do her long questline. It is, IMO, fun, and it nets you the best items in the game. Fortitude tonics remove all weakening and poison. YOU GET FIRST STRIKE AGAINST LOWER LEVEL ENEMIES! YOU CAN KILL HIM! The only reason you can hurt him is the burn salve removed your corrosion. GORGONS ARE NOT POPCORN. Always check if you will even be able to get a level up. There is no point in wasting your hp if you won't be able to level up. Seriously, now you are too focused on the level up. Make sure you actually CAN level up first. You lost...

Here are 3 helpful things: a loss analysis, a list of key points, and a diagram of what you need to beat runs.

LOSS ANALYSIS: First, Dwarf berserker is a bad combo. Use a human. Having a good strategy is important at your skill level, so make sure you use a good race/class/preps combo. Second, you converted BURNDAYRAZ and GETINDARE. This hurt you most of all. Seriously, this was practically the difference between victory and defeat. Third, you were not checking new enemies. As you do more dungeons, this is ESSENTIAL! You need to know what your up against! Fourth, you played mediocrely. You didn't do the math, you forgot things, and you payed for it. Finally, you didn't know the dungeon. This is tied to the third (you didn't anticipate the bosses revival), but I mean the shades. You shouldn't change the cultists to shades until you have a good amount of the map explored and a good amount of cultists uncovered. Then, if you don't want to be blood sucked, don't send the shades into your blackspace!

KEY POINTS: NEVER EVER CONVERT GETINDARE FOR PIETY. EVER. In fact, never convert it unless your strategy does not use it (which is incredibly rarely). NEVER CONVERT BURNDAYRAZ. EVER. In fact, never convert it unless your strategy does not use it (which is incredibly rarely). You need to pick better race/class combos and prep smarter. You need to start doing the math and paying attention to what you're doing. SERIOUSLY, CHECK THE ENEMIES! Don't make dumb mistakes. This hurt you incredibly. 3/4 health potions were wasted for no good reason.

WINNING DUNGEONS (and the necessary requirements):
Easy -> Nothing
Normal -> Basic proficiency
Hard -> (2 of the 4) Divine use proficiency, a good strategy, learned proficiency or just experienced proficiency
Vicious -> (2 of the 4) Masterful proficiency, divine use proficiency, a good strategy

The proficiencies are as such: Basic -> Learned -> Experienced -> Masterful.

I would qualify you as having learned proficiency only. That means you will need a good strategy to win hard dungeons, and that will involve knowing the dungeon. Don't be afraid to take a 1 minute run through new dungeons to see the new monsters, boss(es), and maybe even special rules. It will help immensely.

Here goes more!

Part 21: Lol, got to love those misclicks. It is 1 boss that revives twice. Halflinf Priest? That's a GOOD CHOICE! I said you need a tailored stratey to win, and that is a good strategy! 10% is better than 2 base damage. Out of all these preps, Magnet: Fireball is the best. Seriously, that is far better than the swords. Cultists always revive as 1 level lower zombies. NICE! A good use of WEYTWUT. You should popcorn bowl. If you have full mana, you aren't using WEYTWUT enough. Yeah, putting the zombie in front of another monster in a hallway wasn't smart. A note to what booooooooze said: It is fine to IMAWAL an unslowed dude. In fact it is better if the unslowed dude has first strike. You get the extra exp when you kill the slowed dudes, so why take it early with IMAWAL. And you lose harvestable popcorn, whereas if you had IMAWALed a first striker you would not have lost popcorn. IMAWAL unharvestable popcorn, not slowed people. A troll heart at level 2 is definitely worth a sword. You aren't popcorn bowling! Shame on you! Sir Thrawn gave you a whole new full unexplored subdungeon! You got 25 tiles and he gave you 25 more! Save WEYTWUT. It is so versatile throwing away in a crime. Good job. You were stupidly regen fighting, but then you stopped, looked at you options, and killed him the right way. NO NO NO! YOu shouldn't even consider using a potion for a 3 level higher kill. You have made drastic mistake. YOU NEVER CONVERT BURNDAYRAZ UNLESS YOU ARE A COMBAT WOMBAT! BICEPS IS FAR WORSE THAN BURNDAYRAZ FOR BASICALLY EVERYONE! DO NOT CONVERT IT! You lose exp when you fight the cultists. And he learns: Cultists become shades. ALWAYS KILL THE GOAT. WEYTWUT should have been used far more than it was. Your popcorn bowling was so underused. They don't always blink off map. I SWEAR IF YOU CONVERT GETINDARE I AM GOING TO FLIP. Good. Whew, that was close. OH NO! YOU USED A MANA POTION! If you weren't a priest you would be screwed to death. You normally need those mana potions so much for Anoobis's third form. You complain about the lack of level 7's with 3 of them on the map. THERE ARE ONLY EVER 3 TOTAL! GET THAT STONE! GET IT! THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE IS GOOOOD! You are level 7 and are about to fight the boss. Getting rid of IMAWAL was DEFINITELY a good choice. Ha! You thought the zombie was it! Maybe you should have looked at his panel n00b. Why did you blow a potion on the zombie. YOU HAVE GETINDARE! USE IT! Told you any other class and you'd be screwed. You didn't need a single health potion, but you used two. Remember, potions come last. First glyphs, level ups, and any divine resources. Good job.

KEY POINTS: Remember this run. It is proof of how essential strategy is. Seriously, don't throw away mana potions. With physical resist bosses, you will get screwed over normally. NEVER CONVERT BURNDAYRAZ. Popcorn bowl more. IMAWAL anyone with first strike and not slowed guys.

Priest Bronze: This is debatably my favorite challenge in the whole game. You can literally explore the whole map, pick up the two items and GETINDARE and clear the map. Good job popcorn bowling. This challenge is so fun. Everything is dead! AND YOU GET LOTS OF HEALTH POTIONS! IT'S AWESOME! With WONAFYT you should make a checkerboard, skipping spaces with shops and choke points. YOU BETTER NOT WASTE HEALTH POTIONS. WHAT, YOU CAN! You can definitely regen fight him. It just takes 2 tiles of exploration. Remember, if you are just short of a hit and explore exactly enough it usually works. Regenerate your full stats before fighting. It is a bad, bad decision not to. You're doing fine. Just popcorn bowl and keep killing those higher level guys. This is a bronze challenge. It is designed to be fun, easy, and a learning experience. That is the first good use of a health potion I've seen. AND YOU DON'T EVEN NEED THE POTION! That was a very good kill. Sure, it's only a bronze challenge, but that was good. You should have used your 1 exp away situation to take out the other level 9. You aren't using BICEPS. Why would you get to level 8 before you start the fight? Never just level up. Always ALMOST level up. Nope, you forgot death gaze. Always check monsters abilities. Lol, you never even found the GETINDARE glyph. Good job. You eat or harvest popcorn.

KEY POINTS: Wow, good job. Not much to be said. This is such an easy and simple challenge, there's not much to get wrong. Just don't forget stung (like your BICEPS). Never forget the higher level first strike. It is essential.

Thief Bronze: Another interesting one. These class challenges are cool. Lol, you just realized the trick of the place. You have to kill a buch of wimpy guys and collect charms to win. This isn't really real play, so I'm not going to do commentary. Just keep precasting. Oh yeah, always GETINDARE the highest level guy and hit the lower level guy. It saves exploration. WEYTWUT removes first strike. Use it to kill the boss. Don't forget stabber, you already do 40 damage due to it.

Puzzles: I won't do commentary on these. There's nothing to be said. You do, we watch, you learn. It's good that you're doing the academy. It is a great learning experience. Your reward for the academy is very helpful learning. One thing: Often signs appear as extra hints or help once you fail. ALWAYS READ THESE. You are forgetting conversion. It is a big mean trick they pull in all the god puzzles, so remember it. Lol, if you don't know that conversion trick it sucks. Petrifying was probably the easiest puzzle for me.

Jay, you really should do some silver challenges. It expands your shop pool.

EDIT: You need to add the new videos to their respective playlists.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby booooooze on Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:20 am

The Avatar should be listened to.

One note of clarification: WONAFYT tries to summon a monster to an adjacent space that is either directly above, below, left, or right of you. Only if that's impossible will it put the monster in a diagonal space. Use that knowledge wisely.
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