Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:35 am

The Avatar: Thanks for the detailed review of 20 :) It actually helps a lot.
I will say that I will probably never just "scout" a new dungeon.
I know it is a bit of a bother to see me bumbling into things I don't understand, but that is part of the fun for me, I like going in and seeing a new dungeon with all of its tricks the first time and trying to beat it. . .even if ignorance dooms me to failure. Same is probably going to go for weird race class combos. I am going to do them for the hell of it every now and again :) But I feel like priest halfling is VERY powerful. SO MANY FULL HEALTH POTIONS!

Everything else I heed and will try to apply as much as possible though. I am actually surprised you put me at "learned" instead of still "basics, but lucky"

Should I go for silver challenges before doing all the bronze for every class? That was my plan, unlocking all character classes while interspersing bronze challenges. Then heading into silver challenges. But if people here want to see me trying silver now I will make it a priority soon.

I am excited that my win unlocked the path to vicious dungeons. I can't wait to see what those are like :)

I plan on doing more puzzles soon :)

booooooze: I try to listen as much as possible believe me. And thanks for the info on WONAFYT :)
http://www.youtube.com/JayPlaysIndieGames
Check out the Desktop Dungeons Review, let's play, and tutorials :)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby booooooze on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Halfling priest is indeed some natural synergy.

I haven't watched everything, but I'm surprised you haven't fallen in love with rogues. Seems like you like high damage...
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Dreamdancer on Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:11 pm

Silver challenges give new items. Some of them are really awesome and make life somewhat easier.
Think i solved some of them before i went to the hard dungeons.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Darvin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:11 pm

Dreamdancer wrote:Silver challenges give new items. Some of them are really awesome and make life somewhat easier.


The really nice items are from Rogue Silver, Monk Silver, Paladin Silver, Sorcerer Silver, and Bloodmage Silver.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Dreamdancer on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:50 pm

Yes, Darvin is right about these items. But the problem is, some of the Silver challenges are only possible later in the game if i remember correctly.

Watched your Warlord video. Was nice to look. And i can somehow understand Avatar :) was telling myself all the time: 'No, don't convert BYSSEPS ... puuh ... he didn't ... wait now he wants to do it :o '
Some remarks:
* If you're going to explore, precast all buff spells. In the middle of the game you did this perfect, at the beginning and after you killed lvl9 meatman you were rather sloppy
* At the point where you converted BYSSEPS, i would have waited and first build up the the next level. Then convert IMAWAAL and then by the mana-item. BYSSEPS is really nice against the meatman, more damage and you had before the mid-fight lvlup 6 excess mana -> 3 BYSSEPS (lvl8 base-damage = 40 +4 fine sword) -> 3 times 13 extra damage, plus the first precasted before bossfight this would be 52, nearly the equivalent of a CYDSTEPP
* Converting BURNDAYRAZ was ok i think, i mean the inventar was really fully and you had other stuff to do with the mana
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Darvin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:49 pm

BYSSEPS shines best when you're whittling resistances or if you've got expanded base attack. It's actually not so hot when you've got unmodified base attack.

base attack = 5*level; 30% of that is 1.5 damage/level, or 0.75 damage/level/mana
fireball = 4*level damage; that's 0.66 damage/level/mana

So for a stock character, BYSSEPS represents a fairly marginal improvement over straight fireballing. If inventory space is an issue, converting it is a no-brainer. This goes double if you're playing a race that gets a permanent stat boost from conversions (human, dwarf, elf, orc). Where BYSSEPS really shines is for its resist-down effect and for characters with expanded base attack. Since the trisword nerf, that's been a fairly limited crowd.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:59 pm

BICEPS is still not necessarily better. It isn't at good at regen fighting as BURNDAYRAZ, and you don't get the stack pop-off bonus which can make it deal up to 1 damage per mana per level.

Part 22: The Warlord! This is a very fun class to play, and definitely one of my favorites. It's abilities synergizes almost flawlessly. Base damage is huge for Warlords, and GETINDARE is the best glyph. Elf warlords are very good if you can get 20 mana. The cool thing with CYDSTEPP is you can precast it and the use it mid-battle. But you saw that. Warlords can usually take a weak level 3 at level 1. Always immediately precast CYDSTEPP. What you want to do with an elf is hit that 20 mp threshold ASAP. The bloody sigil is actually best at level 1. WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH THE TOWER SHIELD? Seriously, it isn't that good, and it is totally against the warlord strategy. The pendant of health is better than the tower shield unless you will be tanking lots of hits or resist stacking. Warlords are the OPPOSITE. You should attempt to get all of the damage items you can, and then mana items. Good targets are 2-3 level higher monsters. If you have a way to tank an extra hit from 4-5 level higher dudes (ENDISWAL, GETINDARE, 20 mana for another CYDSTEPP), you should take them out instead. That level 7 snake was a very poor choice. That will require 2 mana potions. The level 6 goat is almost just as good and requires NO POTIONS! It's not a good plan. I promise. I called it 2 MANA POTIONS! THAT'S LETHAL TO YOUR GAME! Your entire endgame is centered around mana potions. Each 2 mana potions are 1 hit against the boss. It is essential to have mana potions for the bosses later in the game (unless you are good enough to get a tricked out loadout that can kill bosses in 3 shots (like in NC)). BICEPS! It's pretty good, but ENDISWAL is the better choice to keep. It allows you total freedom of movement and will let you score hits on 2-3 level higher guys through stoneskin. The tower shield was the best conversion choice of all, but still ENDISWAL trumps BICEPS. Oh dear, meat men are the worst warlord targets. Warlords are the opposite of the monks. You need to fight low hp targets because it will be easy to CYDSTEPP high level versions of them. Here's a small distinction for the warlord. For the purposes of mid-fight level ups, level up with a CYDSTEPP on--don't use the last one. Use it when you level, because you will do slightly more damage. You should have been casting BICEPS, but you forgot TWICE! That was the difference between victory and defeat! The badge of honor is a great item. Seriously, you are overvaluing the tower shield. It's good, but it's not THAT good. ENDISWAL, IMAWAL, BICEPS, heck your 2 base SWORD is better than it. And swords suck. The tower shield is just not what you want for this load out. EM is GREAT for the warlord! The 10 mana from clearance (of course, used after you use plantation) is worth 3-5 more CYDSTEPPs against the boss. UGH. S(uper)M(eat)M(an). HE SUCKS. He is the single most annoying normal boss, IMO, and he is a huge pain for warlords. He is the anti-warlord. All health, no damage. You need to be wary of exploration when fighting SMM. It's all about regen fighting. Normally converting to get 20 mana is good for the warlord, but that BICEPS will be more valuable in a regen fight. NO! As much as you overvalue tower shields, in a regen fight vs SMM it is more valuable than 2 CYDSTEPPs. There are only 2 level 8's. You killed one, and can see the other. You won't find another one. WHAT?! You just said exploration won't be valuable, but it is the single most important thing vs SMM. You should convert IMAWAL before the boss. You just threw away a mid-fight level up vs SMM. You could have had 2... WHAT?! YOU THREW AWAY BICEPS INSTEAD OF IMAWAL? YOU A REGEN FIGHTING A BOSS. WHY WOULD YOU NEED IMAWAL?! You love IMAWAL a little too much. It is not worth giving away your BICEPS pre-regen fight! BICEPS is the alternate tool to BURNDAYRAZ (which you unfortunately CONVERTED!), so it is much more valuable vs SMM that IMAWAL! JUST CONVERT IMAWAL! YOU DON'T NEED IT! You totally misplayed SMM. You should be regen fighting him, not trying to tank him! Imagine if he had been the extra boss in a hard dungeon. You would have blown all your potions on SMM, when 30(?) tiles would have been equivalent. Told you the warlord was cool. Elven boots are a great prep.

KEY POINTS: PRECAST EVERYTHING ALWAYS! You are undervaluing ENDISWAL and over valuing IMAWAL. Seriously, the tower shield isn't that good unless you have lots of hp. SMM should be regen fought, not tanked. Oh, and side note, the gen in regen is prounounced like the gen in generation (so it's pronounced like re-jen). Don't use potions.

Warlord tips: 20 mana is great (2 CYDSTEPPs), but 25 is the best (each mana potion=1 CYDSTEPP). Always mid-fight level up with a DP on (as in use your last DP after you level) because you will do slightly more damage total.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:39 am

Part 23: Ah, complicated tasks! These are fun, annoying, and sometimes difficult. Even then, they unlock the best items in the game. Dwarf warlord? Sounds fun! Elven boots are by far the best prep you have available. Read the quest description. It makes the green shops sell fortitude tonics. +10 health is only mediocre for warlords. Burn salves cure mana burn and all corrosion, fortitude tonics cure poison and weakening. They're great if you forget mana burn or poison or (later in the game) are going to have to rack up weakening or corrosion. Level 3's when you play a warlord. Kill level 3's at level 1. BE CAREFUL IN HOARDER. You are stuck with all the crap you pick up. Good choice to leave WEYTWUT. You have CYDSTEPP and you need to save a slot for the philosopher's stone. Seriously, get that thing. Wow! I was just thinking you should get the gorgon, and you saw it. Good for you! HOW WILL YOU AFFORD WEYTWUT! THINK! NO MANA POTIONS. NO! Thank you for not using that potion. You could buy the 1 base damage spoon and win instead. Why not get the spoon? It's a great purchase. Since this is hoarder, you are right not to grab BURNDAYRAZ, but normally you should keep it for physical resist enemies and mana burners. You should fight 2-3 level higher only as a warlord (3 levels or even 4 if they are a bad type). Good use of WEYTWUT. You seem to be doing everything I think, and that's awesome. Mystic balance is golden for warlords. 8 mana CYDSTEPPS are the bomb. Make sure you get enough piety (remember, it's pie-ety, not pea-ety) for Mystic balance too. You should know what you're up against in basically every dungeon. Level 7 is ideal for fighting bosses unless you can score the double mid-fight level up. Don't forget to save enough for that philosopher's stone. You killed the level 7's. When you have full hp and go to full mana you are wasting tiles. Unless you heal both mana and health you are wasting a tile. You spent too much mana on the magic boon. Mistake. You should think in terms of 3's 6/7/8. Never use Taurog with your warlord. WHAT?! You are making a large mistake. You shouldn't slaughter your way to level 8 (although this proves that you could have scored 2 mid-fight level ups. And you blew it. THINK, MAN, THINK! You can't make dumb mistakes like that. It hurts you far too much. You could have had 3 mid-fight level ups and instead you had 0. That is 4 wasted hits. Sure it worked out, but it wouldn't in any hard dungeon and it was bad. That H thing is connected to the story.

KEY POINTS: It was a really good run till the end, but it all will have to be good for harder dungeons. Consider more than just one mid-fight level up. People have gotten up to 8 before (and I among them. Go starting the boss at level 1!). Make sure you will have enough piety for your diving plan. Check the increasing costs and all that.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Dreamdancer on Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:52 pm

Watched a couple of your plays and one big thing i noticed in most of them is that you play somewhat absent-minded:
* sometimes not pre-casting spells
* converting a glyph and directly after that joining taurog -> missing 10 piety
* not reading monster descriptions
...
I would think, if you would play a little bit more careful you would improve by a big step, due to not making these small errors.

But on the other hand, you showed me the power of regen-fighting. It's a strat which is rarely do :oops: (most of the time only regen 1-3 tiles for the final blow. or if i have the monk). Nice think of the game is one can always learn more.

So now i go back more my second vicious token run ... and will probably run back to the forum asking the vets for advices. It's so unbelieveable what they can do :shock:
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Naoya on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Bit of Trivia: I think the Indomitable used to NOT lose damage when losing death protections... not sure about that tho, was way before I started playing :D
I'm looking forward to you doing the vicious version of the dungeon.
Btw, burndayraz is awesome for killing AA (Animated Armors) if you can get them to 1 HP.
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