Page 1 of 1

Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:04 pm
by Bloggorus
Hi guys,

I've always wondered if there will ever be toasts or some kind of feedback about the mechanics of level up.

The devs are obviously trying to avoid gameplay intrusion and text-based indicators as much as possible in favour or loading up the sidebar and 'natural' indicators like the flying health and mana beads.

I think level ups need toasts of some kind, just to show the effects on level up. Over the last two years they have REALLY added up and there is no indication of what happens on level up. I know now because i am so used to it, but i cant help think that players won't 'get' all the different effects that happen in the blink of an eye without indication.

As far as i know they can include:

    More HP (variable between classes)
    More base attack (also variable between classes)
    HP and Mana refill (+ item based increases)
    Cure Poison / Manaburn
    Piety gains/losses
    Pact effects
    Patches effects
    Item effects
    Item use reset

This is a dodgy mockup i made, but i would probably suggest something more subtle and transitional.


Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:50 pm
by The Avatar
I totally support this idea. The level effects are too numerous to be easily figured out. One detail is that it might be nice to give some detail as to where things came from (excluding the generic level up effects). Just heading the pact's effects with "body pact" or whichever it is and heading the patches effects with "patches".

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:25 am
by JayPlaysIndieGames
I don't know if a big intrusive text box is the best idea though. I think if something like this were to come along it should be similar to the piety tab in the lower right. That way every time one of you character stats changes (due to a pick up, god boon, weakening, level up etc it could be detailed in the bottom right, taking all the guess work out of where your stats are coming from.
I think something like this would be incredibly useful, especially if patches is along giving you damage bonuses (or whatever he does) you can have a log of where that comes from.
The only thing that would need to be exluded from the panel as far a stat changes would be damage taken and mana used.

I think this solution is smaller, less intrusive, and more informative than a huge congrats banner every level up ;)

On the other hand I have no idea how long it would take to develop such a thing, or even if it is ultimately "desirable". I know I would like it though, so I could see the exact level gains and figure out where all my benefits are coming from.

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:28 am
by Darvin
No, I wouldn't want to see this. Level-ups happen frequently (often mid-battle) in Desktop Dungeon, and this would be an unnecessary distraction.

Patches is the only case where things get complicated.

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:48 am
by Dreamdancer
I'm on the same side as Darvin. A pop-up for every level-up would be annoying really fast. So an additional tab would be great. But this could lead to too many tabs (inventory, piety, shop/stairs, monster, level-log).
Nevertheless such a pop-up would be nice for new players. I think the best solution would be a pop-up which an be disabeled in the menu (and which is on by default).

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:42 am
by Lujo
Well, I think it's a good general idea that would help teach a very important but obscure mechanic to newbies. There are problems with the way things are, but having a part of the left side interface where stars or somesuch could pop up and be clicked upon to check out what you got would be great if implementable.

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:04 am
by Dreamdancer
Think the problem with additional tabs or interfaces is, that it makes the game somewhat more complex. I mean if you have ten clickable tabs with informations the newbie is overwhelmened (we see this somewhat with Jay, who doesn't really read the monster descriptions). In that sense the pop-up is a nice idea, since the information jumps into your face. If the pop-up is implemented it should only be a short step to make an option in the menu to disable the pop-up.

Only problem is Patches. Sometimes the text for the buff and debuff is so long, that it's longer than the window and the last part is missing. One idea would be that at Level 1 mouse-over over Patches give the normal desription. And for higher level the description is shorted to:
Buff on level-up: XYZ
Debuff on level-up: XYZ

Think this would be a nicer solution than an additional tab (easier to access, probably easier to implement, tabs don't get crowded, ...)

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:57 pm
by Bloggorus
I dont like tabs too much, especially when the devs have done such a good job with immediate feedback like text bubbles, toasts and the visual effects.

What about a simple list of effects that drops down and then fades out? It wouldn't be around for long, and a small button somewhere could give you more details.

like this : Image

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:14 am
by dislekcia
It's much easier to add how much you'll gain on a stat per level to the stat's mouseover information.

But we're also working on something a little more obvious that won't obscure the play-area as well.

Re: Level Up Toasts

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:56 am
by Bloggorus
Excellent. My work here is done :)