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Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:22 pm
by Lujo
The thing with cheeky is that it's very, very easy on a regular run, but can be a true pain in the behind on PQI runs or specfic runs. There's maps out there that make looking for an "easy" level 2 guy to kill a tricky proposition that ends up biting you in the ass (vicious maps can really be like that), and it takes concessions you're not used to having to make. Weird but true.

Also, the badge made me laugh out loud. It's impossibly crude and could be the illustration for the TV Tropes page for "Refuge in Audacity", but I was looking really carefully at the ones which didn't make sense to me and started from the right for some reason and I took a long hard look at it. It's like wtf is this, hmmm, no clue, wtf is this supposed to be, hmmm, wtf is... omgLOL :D

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:56 pm
by The Avatar
Specialist use to be kill all bosses using one type of damage, but now that you can't reduce the resists of bosses in magma mines it is only kill the LAST boss with only one damage type.

Killing no same level monsters would be a bit on the too hard side. How about get a 2 (or maybe 3) level higher kill that is not the boss. Harder, but not so easy to be gotten every time.

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:55 pm
by Darvin
Killing no same level monsters would be a bit on the too hard side

Not to mention completely impossible in Naga City and Gaan-Telet, where the required enemies are more than sufficiently high-leveled to force you to reach level 10. Ding! Max in general is trivial on vicious scenarios, and you'd actually have to work to avoid grabbing it.

I really wish the Magma Mines guys would get reverted to resistances so specialist could go back to the way it was. It's a total joke as it is right now; only the most hopelessly down-to-the-wire-with-no-glyph-except-BURNDAYRAZ scenarios preclude it.

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:21 pm
by The Avatar
Agreed. As soon as you are trying to get it it's a joke. Also, that would make it possible to do my favorite trickshot run, the reverse magma mines specialist (Herp, the tougher of the two bodyguards, then the other, and you have to get specialist). That was actually one of my favorite runs...

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:32 am
by TheSchachter
berpdreyfuss wrote:I see that it is nice to have an easy badge, but cheeky is too easy for my taste, It doesn't feel like an accomplishment. It doesn't seem to make a difference for vicious, I have it on both dungeons I won and on Halls Of Steel it's the only one I got.
I like that it promotes the idea of higher level kills, so maybe it could be changed to something like "never killed a same level monster (except the boss)". This way it would be relevant for the whole run and not be done after the first kill.

I get what you mean, but I think in this case it's actually "easy" in a different sense, or rather for a different audience. Have you seen players who are brand new at this game? In many cases, they'll understand that higher level kills give more experience but still kill all level 1 monsters they see. I've watched my girlfriend and another of my friends play, told them more than once that it's really best to aim for higher-level kills, and yet they still fought weaker monsters at most given opportunities (And generally doing things that secretly made me want to pull my hair out XD). My point being, I think the Cheeky badge is meant at least partially as a learning tool to underline and reward behaviour that is both tricky and unintuitive (for beginners) and yet necessary. The fact that we're having a discussion about the merits of earning it in vicious would put us waaaaay beyond this scope... and your suggestion, while certainly interesting for very experienced players, would go against that...

That's my take on it anyway :)

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:00 pm
by Lujo
Agree with the Snatcher, what he sayes makes sense.

Also, while many pros will go out of their way to preserve popcorn and religiously avoid killing lvl1 monsters I can think of at least a few cases where I kill them straight out and consider it a good move. I distinclty remember several cases where I managed to arse up, pun unintended, the cheeky badge of all things even if I was intent on getting it bundled with others.

1) Labyrinths:

a) Maps with "Dragon Isles" layout, and other labyrinths.
b) Grimm's Grotto.
c) Maps with bloody stupid monster rosters which spawn stuff I don't want to tackle at lvl1 as my lvl2 monsters.
d) Maps with Vicious Token enabled and maps various vicious maps (and a bunch of those are mazy)

2) "Burst" runs

a) Balanced Dagger runs. Everyone knows how bloody powerful that thing is, and Cheeky pretty much means you don't get as much from it than you would.
b) Piety burst runs - Taurog rewards killing magic users, Drac rewards killing in general, and I'll ussually get rid of any near-the-entrance lvl1 magic users if I prep Mystera (+ Blanaced Dagger in particular).
c) Ick swamp warlocks for the drops.
d) Fighter runs because killing 2 slowed lvl1's is fine. Bloodmage runs because I pretty much need a few bloodpools around to start bursting down big guys. Monk runs because I care more for blackspace than level-catapults. Crusader runs sometimes to set up the first burst (even though saving popcorn is important for him). Wizard runs sometimes because the fukk*r is between me and glyph, and Tinker runs sometimes because the fukk*r is between me and a subdungeon. Priest runs when a fukk*r is between me and an undead.
e) Lvl1 bosskills are by default uncompatible with cheeky, but the benefits of killing a few for piety and setting up dodges actually lets you skip the whole game. You can say that in these cases going for cheeky actually seers you towards playing the game as it was intended at all.

And then there's the whole learning thing - killing higher level monsters is one of those things that looks like it's "against the rules". You're supposed to level up and then fight (wrong!), you're not supposed to explore while you fight (wrong!), monsters above your level are too tough to fight (wrong!)...

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:36 pm
by berpdreyfuss
Yes, of course there are certain runs where it's hard to get cheeky, I was only mentioning that it's the only badge I got on every dungeon I have beaten, without ever even thinking about it.

I totally agree on the learning aspect, though it seems strange that it's the only "learning" badge, while the others (again except Ding Max) put some restriction on your run.

There could be a lot more learning badges, too. And then there could be the learning badges tier 1, and when you've beaten them, the restricting badges tier 2. But that might be too late now... There were a lot more of these in the alpha, right? Was there ever a discussion in the early beta which ones to keep and which to drop?

But it seems everybody is fine with the badges as they are, and I just stumbled over the differences while thinking about them, and it isn't really a major thing for me.

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:52 pm
by Lujo
I'm trying to figure out badges as I run into them.

Purist is a diamond.
Cheeky is... well, a posterior.
Ding! Max is a 10.
The bag one is a bag.

What's Unstoppable supposed to be? A wax skull?

There might be one or two more I can't figure out.

Re: Gold Star Stickers

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:25 pm
by The Avatar
Feeling Parched is a bunch of potions stuck together (presumably you strung the potions you didn't use into a badge).
Faithless is the piety icon with the circle with a line through it.
Miser is a coin on a piece of parchment.
Unstoppable is a bloodstain.
Vicious is the vicious token on a harp or something.
Specialist looks like a military sniper medal, but I'm not sure what it is supposed to be.
Warmonger is just crossed swords.