QCF Design Community

Bogus is a euphemism and I feel the need to remind everyone of this: Desktop Dungeons is a primarily a puzzle game wherein victory is earned through calculation and the cunning combination of documented game elements. Where there are gambles, the odds are known. Where there is blackspace, there is predictability; the risk-taking is fair because the unknown can be extrapolated from what has already been uncovered. Which is why giving dungeon bosses powerful hidden abilities alongside normally displayed statuses is not only a cause of unfair frustration, but wildly out of context for the game experience as a whole. I would strongly suggest that such bosses be given unique status icons that, if not practically able to fully describe their powers, would at least serve as a warning or reminder that not all is as standard in their case.

Or, as a brief tldr transcription of my initial reaction, asdfasdcasdfacewcarcasdfasdfgbf,mgmghgfhk;gfhk;.

Oh okay. Well, stay away from Namtar's Lair. And Naga City. And Demonic Library. And the gold class challenges.

Anyway. This is a lesson you only need to learn once, and then you realize that Hexx Ruins is actually freakishly easy since all you really need to do is kill as much as possible since the boss is an absolute pushover. Go ahead and level off those level 1s.

Honestly, he has a point. Stheno is a real kick in the dick that first time you go through that dungeon, probably run-wreckingly so if you've gotten any good at the game. Once the surprise factor is gone and you know what to do, yeah, it's easy, but that first runthrough is massively unfun.

Also, all the stuff you mention is Vicious or Gold challenges, where shocking swerves should be expected. The second-tier directional dungeon, not as much.

EDIT: to expound, the Vicious dungeons and Gold challenges are supposed to be the most difficult things the game throws at you, and you can only push the numbers so high before the game is unwinnable. As such, you really, really should expect things not to go smoothly in Vicious or gold. Even VHoS, the most vanilla of the bunch, throws a curveball in The Indomitable.

If by "learn" you mean "almost inevitably waste 20 minutes of careful dungeon exploration through no fault of the player". Withholding critical enemy information from the player in an environment where said information is otherwise entirely available to the player isn't teaching them anything, it's just needlessly screwing them over on their first attempt.

The kicker isn't so much Stheno so much as combining her with Hexx Ruins' mechanic. If you didn't come prepared for Hexx's mechanic - and you really can't your actual first time, they don't warn you - you're probably going to get overwhelmed by the revenants the first run. That might run that run before you even get to the boss the first time. If you then get to Stheno the second time but left half a dozen monsters alive because you didn't want them spawning revenants...then, guess what? You just got crotch kicked *again.* Actually if you crank up the monster stats, Hexx would make a good Vicious dungeon itself. But that's not how it's rated or located.

I mean I suspect 99% of the people on this board have no problems in Hexx now. We know what to expect from the Ruins and Stheno. That place can be as bad as the Labyrinth for newer players though.

Yes, I get your point and it may be a question of personal taste. I wasn't annoyed by the mechanic but was motivated to figure out how it works and what to do about it. And I didn't mind dying a few times while figuring that out.

I'm not sure how many other mechanics there are in the game that work the way Stheno works.

Hex used to be the third directional dungeon, and Ick Swamp used to be where Hex is now. Which might be a good thing, as Hex is rather difficult when you crank the stats up.

And, err, Stheno was nerfed. She used to be capable of surprise-ruining your run even after you've learned about what is now "the gimmick".

My first reaction to Stheno was NNOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo, but now I really love that dungeon. Having unique dungeon mechanics such as those found in the hex ruins (complete with surprise game ruining moments) is what keeps the game fresh and fun to me.

If I put this game down for ten years and pick it back up again I will NOT forget Stheno's mechanic because of how earthshattering it was the first time it happened to me.