QCF Design Community

Well, technicaly, Kaizo Mario is ment to be played with protection from accidents as the accidents are supposed to be impossible to see coming, and as for how hardcore that is, google if you don't know. Also, really, and this is for realz, there aren't supposed to be any "accidents" in DD. Really, it's not part of the gameplay, it makes no sense as a hazard etc. etc. But since you can argue that death is necessary (and the guys who made the game are arguing this on rather solid grounds) the compromise is necessary, and really, the alternative interface modes are quite good at preventing the accidents (well, mouse related ones, you can still get overconfident and hit space bar too much but it's way less of a hazard).

So, the OP got his problem solved, what are we doing arguig about this?

EDIT: @Wargasm - if you're not convinced, I don't feel like going into another "is this a puzzle or a roguelike" discussion, but do ask around the forums what it means when I'm the one defending a debatable design decision in DD.

Just one more example

In minesweeper you can click on a field in a corner that's surrounded by 1's and "die". What's different about this or do you think there should be a death warning, too?

I guess this is not about should there be a death warning or not in DD anymore, but I would like to get it a little bit clearer. So if you don't mind I would like to continue a bit without too many emotions involved...

"There is no deduction of "is this enemy going to kill me?" because the game flatly tells you that he will"

Would it make a difference if there was no combat prediction and you would have to deduct it by adding and substracting?

"information that a game like Minesweeper does not provide you with."

I chose the example because a single square surounded by 1 in an otherwise empty surrounding isn't about deducting anymore, you immediately see that you're gonna die.

"This is in contrast with DD, where you're never put into a position where you have to make a guess or make a deduction on whether an action will kill you or not: you are always armed with this information."

I would argue that the whole point of DD is to take actions that avoid your death in the dungeon. Perhaps this point would be clearer if there was no retiring or surrendering. Each click you make decides whether in the end you're gonna click on the boss to win or you have to click on a monster (or retire, which is like dying in my book) and die because there is no other possibility.

Sometimes I die to misclicks which is really annoying. The most annoying time was when my mouse would occasionally doubleclick when I only clicked once. I really wish there had been a death confirmation then. I guess I could have gone with right click + keyboard to make the best out of the situation, but luckily my mouse fixed itself a day later.

I think death confirmation would be good as an accessibility option. But maybe the different control schemes are enough. I trust the devs, and they say they tested death confirmation and found that it really messes up the game. That's good enough for me.

Yes, your points are valid about 2. and 3.

About 1.: I think here is an interesting point: The devs chose to include the prediction but not the death warning. For me these are both fundamental changes, although both only convert information that you already have.
So for me the argument: You know that you're going to die, so there has to be a death warning makes no sense. It's where you draw the line what is a challenge and what is not. Not clicking on a monster labelled "death" might be part of the challenge.

Thanks for your thoughts, let's leave it here.

So hey, here's another question:

If death confirmations are the vilest, crassly offensive, most game-wreckingly awful UI considerations ever to have been spawned in the damned minds of ignorant (paraphrasing!) ... why do we have compulsory confirmations for the lesser penalty of altar desecration? Even when carrying the item that specifically prevents them?

Probably because "DEATH" in big red letters is a pretty obvious consequence, whereas the things that come of altar desecrations are not. Especially to new players who don't have the deity-related codex entries memorised.

Not to mention some of the punishments are worse than mere death. After all, they make a spell for laughing at death.

Uh, only the JJ altar desecration has a warning. The others don't really say anything (and personally, I'm against the JJ altar having a warning anyways).