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What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:55 pm
by Wargasm
I get this once in awhile and I don't get it. I can never get to the middle and find out what's there and I never seem to get it on a map with LEMISI. Any ideas?

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Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:01 am
by TheSchachter
Hmm... doesn't seeing that "monster" icon make you... wanna fight? :P

I actually haven't yet been able to properly "complete" this subdungeon, since I haven't encountered it while holding on to the glyph. It's been changed from its earlier incarnation, where the enemy in question spawned outside of the fog, was a lvl10 that blinked and spawned a bunch of snakes that also blinked, and dropped lemmisi when you beat him, to take advantage of the fog. He was fairly tough, but very much worth the bonus EXP most of the time...

No idea if fighting him is the same since the change put him in the middle of the subdungeon.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:17 am
by Lujo
Yes, it think wonnafyt is the only way to get the guy to come out. He's the same level as you were when you first entered the subdungeon (either that or always lvl1 but with strong stats). He has low health, though, and about 10 death protections so his damage goes down as you knock them out. He drops a Sensation Stone.

I whish there was another way to reach him, like casting Imawal on the water creating passage instead of a wall, but eh, shoulda pitched that idea earlier, I guess...

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:20 am
by Wargasm
Yeah, and the dungeon had ENDISWAL, BURNDAYRAZ, APHEELSIK, HALPMEH, and GETINDARE... :/

Be nice if the main dungeon spawned one of the glyphs required to actually do the subdungeon once in awhile.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:28 am
by Darvin
Reminds me of the original Ying/Yang subdungeon; either you had ENDISWAL, or you got nothing.

I'd agree there should be multiple ways of "solving" this one. Having only a single workable glyph is problematic, especially since WONAFYT is commonly converted after reaching level 2-3. Only Assassins hang on to it for much longer than that.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:35 am
by Wargasm
Or at least if only one glyph works, it should be BURNDAYRAZ, the only one that's guaranteed to spawn.

APHEELSIK could poison the water and force it to come out.
IMAWAL could make a bridge.
WONAFYT summons.
If a second, visible monster were there, you could WEYTWUT with it.
BYSSEPS or PISORF could let you knock over a tree and make a bridge.
You could CYDSTEPP over a gap.
Or hey, maybe BURNDAYRAZ could boil the water out of the lake.

That'd leave HALPMEN, GETINDARE, ENDISWAL, and BLUDTOPOWA as the only combinated of glyphs that could spawn without one solving it (I'm assuming that this subdungeon prevents LEMISI from spawning, so it can be a reward) if BURNDAYRAZ can't be used to solve it; any other combination would let you solve it with at least one glyph.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:36 am
by Naoya
Well, actually, there are two ways; either WONAFYT or WEYTWUT+LEMMISI/B2P.
Both are pretty situational though, and the latter kills almost any benefit that subdungeon has.
If you haven't any of the glyphs you only get a few spare tiles of Blackspace.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:38 am
by TheSchachter
Honestly, it doesn't bother me all that much; even if you can't "complete" the subdungeon, it still gives you quite a bit of blackspace for regeneration. Even in its final version, Yin and Yang aren't always worth taking down, in which case your subdungeon is effectively empty.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:43 am
by Darvin
Any "solutions" would have to be a universal application of the glyph in question. So if using IMAWAL to create a bridge is a solution here, then IMAWAL needs to be able to create bridges in all situations.

APHEELSIK could poison the water and force it to come out.

The glyph just doesn't work like this, so no that one doesn't make sense.

IMAWAL could make a bridge.

Creating bridges actually sounds like a cool use of IMAWAL, but would probably break a whole bunch of things.

If a second, visible monster were there, you could WEYTWUT with it.

You'd need LEMMISI or BLUDTUPOWA to complete the combo, but I'd agree this would be a sensible alternate solution.

BYSSEPS or PISORF could let you knock over a tree and make a bridge.
You could CYDSTEPP over a gap.
Or hey, maybe BURNDAYRAZ could boil the water out of the lake.

None of these make any sense given the functionality of the glyphs. BYSSEPS and CYDSTEPP are self-buffs that have no effect on the environment, while PISORF and BURNDAYRAZ have never interacted with water; it's completely counter-intuitive that they would work differently in this situation.


WEYTWUT+LEMMISI/B2P.

This won't work; you'll be able to reveal him and swap places with him, but then you'll be stranded.

Re: What is this subdungeon?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:08 am
by Wargasm
Well, yes, the glyphs don't work like that or it wouldn't need to be suggested that they do for the purpose of that puzzle. Thank you, Captain Obvious! *Salutes!*