What is this subdungeon?

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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby Lujo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:08 am

I'm not even sure he's standing on a solid tile TBH, and wheytwut wouldn't work because of what darvin said. And coding the IMAWAL functionality would break stuff in other places, and couding it for that dungeon would be both a hassle and leave people wondering why it doesn't work in other places. And yeah, it gives quite a lot of regen and is in fact bloody powerfull with LEMISI and especially B2P. And since the dude's a pushover it would be a really easy-to-find Sensation Stone (still, 150 CP in most cases isn't too much, compared to certain other subdungeons).

While we're at it, we never had that subdungeon discussion we were meaning to have and the devs never got proper feedback. There's some real cluncky crap in there, and the way too good ones I can live with as a way of letting newbies hit the jackpot every so often. But the clunky ones get really old after a while.

To make clear - I'm not whining about ones like this one - I'll take my big blob of exploration and burn vicious to the ground with a bloodmage, don't get me wrong.

So the ones I'd do something about in a heartbeat if I were somehow an all powerful game developer:

Vegetarian Vampire: I like the concept. Really, I do. BUT! It's impossible to have the message and the "field" visible at the same time and clicking between them is tiresome since they're represented visually on the screen and with letters on the paper, and I have to keep mousing over them and... it takes me longer to figure it out every time than play half the map. Also, I can ussually only ever put togather 2 bonuses for all my trouble due to the uneven number of plants spawned and funky recipies, and individual rewards are a bit on the "meh" side. So it manages to both suck and blow - highest level of fiddling in the game required to get anything, impossibly low reward. After a while I just decide to skip it and keep concentration on the run (and you can tell how bad it is then, since you can't possibly lose anything while trying it).

That is all. That I can think of right now. If someone woke me up in the middle of the night with a flashlight into my face and a dog snarling at me and said "Vegetarin Vampire Subdungeon!" I'd go "NOOOOOOOOO! It's horrible! Gooood Coooonceeeept Thoooo!"
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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby The Avatar on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:23 am

Really? I always seem to get a lot out of Vegetarian Vampire. At least 3 if not 4 bonuses. Sure it is a pain to check the recipes, but if you plan out your move in advance you will get more out of it for less work.

@Wargasm: That was a rather unnecessary jest and Darvin makes a good point. Puzzles should challenge you by making you do things within the rules that are difficult/non-obviously, instead of expecting you to do something totally outside of what the rules cover and in no way obvious. That would be like if a 1000 piece puzzle had 999 pieces in the box and the last one inside of a hollowed out chamber in the cardboard that makes the box.
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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby Lujo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:42 am

The Avatar wrote:Really? I always seem to get a lot out of Vegetarian Vampire. At least 3 if not 4 bonuses. Sure it is a pain to check the recipes, but if you plan out your move in advance you will get more out of it for less work.


Really? O.O I don't remember it ever spawning a EDIT: a configuration I can possibly get more than 2 out of. I count the ones that spawn in the least ammount and then go through recipies to see how many do I need, and no matter how I arrange it (not even taking into account the order in which I approach them) there's simply always too few of some. It might've spawned a possiblity of getting 3 bonuses maybe once in all the time I've seen it. Maybe I'm just really, really bad at it.

It's be far less of a trauma if it had a more user firendly interface, though. I even had a phase where every time I thought "Lujo, don't give up, it's probably random, count them all carefully, lets give it another chance" and nope.

And @Wargasm: Serious question, are you maybe a senior citisen?
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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby OneMoreNameless on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:51 am

I find Vegetarian Vampire one of the most fun subdungeons, and even if the boost isn't huge that you can (partially) choose what to gain and gain it instantly without any resource expenditure makes it pretty helpful if you stumble into it early. (I've usually ended up with 3 bonuses, 2 if I'm picky or 4 if I'm lucky and willing to take whatever.) Checking the scroll over and over is a little annoying but I can't imagine a better way around it without coding something unique that likely wouldn't be worth the dev time.
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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby Lujo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:56 am

There is a way - moving the parchment from the middle of the screen where it obscures the field of plants to the side where you can see both paralel. Agree on the fun part, if the woke me up in the middle of the night I'd say the "Goooood cooonceeept thoooo!" part about it too. :)

I'm sure I'd love it with the parchement moved to the side, really.
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Re: What is this subdungeon?

Postby Wargasm on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:17 am

I took a screenshot of the recipe and put it on imgur. Then I can look at that and the game at the same time.

And no, I'm not quite that old.
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