Page 2 of 3

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:35 pm
by FDru
Incompetent wrote:Bet on Boss is a strange prep. It effectively slaps a big opportunity cost in gold on all the other Thief Den preps, making them effectively the most expensive preps by far. (This is assuming you can win in a small number of attempts, of course, but then if you need a lot of prepped attempts to solve a dungeon, you're not in it for the money any more.) I'm not sure it really needs to be in the game at all, since it doesn't really add much to the decision-making process before a run.

Due to the cost of the late-game unlocks, it's nice to have. Besides, for the average player it probably is a gamble, since they'd get more use out of the other preps and they probably have a good chance of losing anyway.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:47 pm
by Sidestepper
I like the token idea. I think it would work if Bet on Boss had a high price (~100 gold), but the cost was refunded if you win, with this refund being in addition to the increased trophy value. That way, it's an actual gamble with a good prize but a stiff penalty for failure.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:02 am
by Astral
Me too. I never liked losing purist to it. Also I found it weird that taking a bet wasn't very 'gambly', no risk, just guaranteed reward.
And if boosting gold gain the way Sidestepper suggested was too good, it could come with a little boost to the bosses to make it more interesting.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:05 am
by TheSchachter
Astral wrote:Me too. I never liked losing purist to it. Also I found it weird that taking a bet wasn't very 'gambly', no risk, just guaranteed reward.


It probably feels very "gambly" to most players when they first unlock it, as they're likely to still have difficulties against the normal dungeon.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:30 am
by Sidestepper
Astral wrote:And if boosting gold gain the way Sidestepper suggested was too good, it could come with a little boost to the bosses to make it more interesting.


I'm not so much suggesting that we boost the gold gain so much as that we boost the penalty for failure.

TheSchachter wrote:It probably feels very "gambly" to most players when they first unlock it, as they're likely to still have difficulties against the normal dungeon.


It's not a gamble though. The penalty for failure is that you spent 5 extra gold. That's nothing. That's the same as drinking one extra potion during the run. Bet on Boss, at worst, puts 5 gold at risk in exchange for a shot at a 70 gold net gain. At best it's a 5-for-220 bet. These are fantastic spreads.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:18 am
by FDru
Sidestepper wrote:It's not a gamble though. The penalty for failure is that you spent 5 extra gold. That's nothing. That's the same as drinking one extra potion during the run. Bet on Boss, at worst, puts 5 gold at risk in exchange for a shot at a 70 gold net gain. At best it's a 5-for-220 bet. These are fantastic spreads.

But you're not just losing the 5 gold, you're losing the other thief guild preps. That makes the run harder. That means you have a higher chance to fail. I'm certain they had this in mind when they implemented it.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:18 am
by Lujo
^ This is true, if you go on a long streak of bet on boss runs and then suddenly remember you have patches, in game gold and the subdungeon available as preps and start actually using them, you notice that you're more powerful than you were.

If you're just going purist everywhere, then yeah, it's just more gold per run. Which is why making it a token isn't exactly great as it lets you stack it with thief preps or just have a chance to get purist if you prep it meaning people would prep it on every run.

My original idea was that it made sense only if there were more tokens, which may or may not have been doable...

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:07 am
by Blovski
As others have noted, the real cost is the lack of other Thieves Guild preps - I kind of don't see the need for it to go with purist tbh, given that playing purist you're saving on any prep costs anyway.

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:14 am
by Nurator
I would like a modificator like

If you win this dungeon, you will get 150 more gold. If you lose, you will lose 150 extra gold.

This way it wouldnt be prepped everytime and would be completely independent of thief preps

Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:12 pm
by dislekcia
Nurator wrote:I would like a modificator like

If you win this dungeon, you will get 150 more gold. If you lose, you will lose 150 extra gold.

This way it wouldnt be prepped everytime and would be completely independent of thief preps


I think that's not a good idea. New players wouldn't use it out of fear of losing, but then when they did win without it they'd feel cheated instead of elated at their success. Not an optimal set of emotions to feel when doing well :)

If players lost MORE gold than what they'd spent at the start because they felt a dungeon was unfair (it makes no difference if it actually wasn't, it's their perception that matters) you'd have way more complaints about gold grinding and how crap the difficulty is.