Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Nurator on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:29 pm

damn psychology :D

What about something like:

Invest all your hero money: You start with 0 gold, but if you win, your invested money quadruples!
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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:14 pm

^ that's more of an alternate mode thing. Would work better as a token, though ^^

Say, what's the realy, actual, genuing problem here? People forgetting it's a prep because it doesn't do anything in-run? Is there really any other "macro" prep in the game?
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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:30 pm

FDru wrote:
Sidestepper wrote:It's not a gamble though. The penalty for failure is that you spent 5 extra gold. That's nothing. That's the same as drinking one extra potion during the run. Bet on Boss, at worst, puts 5 gold at risk in exchange for a shot at a 70 gold net gain. At best it's a 5-for-220 bet. These are fantastic spreads.

But you're not just losing the 5 gold, you're losing the other thief guild preps. That makes the run harder. That means you have a higher chance to fail. I'm certain they had this in mind when they implemented it.


I was proposing that BoB be moved to a token system (like the Viscous token), which both removes the opportunity cost and the Purist problem. The original Bob cost 50 gold, but it wasn't worth it because the original cost wasn't refunded and so the net profit was tiny.

A token implementation would also move BoB out of the hands of novices, which probably a good thing.

I also think you're overestimating the effects of the other thief preps. On flaming dungeon you'd have to have 44 losses for every 1 win for BoB to stop being worth it. There's no way that the other thief preps are swinging your win/loss rate that hard.
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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Well, whatever you do to it something's not right, and it far too late to do anything that involves a fan favourite thing and could be considered a nerf at the same time. Cause grief to a bunch of people who've bought the game just because a bunch of guys who've been beta testing the game for years talked the devs into it... in a singleplayer game? It's kinda too late, and the actual gripe is kinda minor... "You can't get purist if you take a prep on a run." While I actually fully understand the specifics and the conundrum I'm torn between deciding would the O RLY owl or the "Tell me more about how..." Willy Wonka illustrate a sarcastic reaction to the whole bussiness. XD

And anyway, if the devs were gonna do anything about anything they would've made the cauldron + thief interaction be the logical one by now XD
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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:40 pm

Oh, I don't expect anything to change. The current build is stable, everything more or less works, and the devs have better things to do than tinker with endgame content. Talking about changes that you would like is fun, and that' all I'm expecting to come from this.
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Re: Can we get Purist if we only take Bet on Boss?

Postby Lujo on Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:32 am

Oh, I'm just putting that way of looking at the whole bussiness out there just so it's clear noone's being damanding or unreasonable. You can't get O RLY'd if you O RLY yourself demonstratively first. :) Also kinda trying to put the original ontology of the whole conundrum back into focus as I'm brushing up on my design having become active in the Rebuild 3 beta test forums (someone's developing a Chaos Overlords Light - zombie edition, FINALLY! QCF are better (or more experienced) game developers from what I've seen so far. Also, the rate of casual-to-hardocore-powergamer is much much more in favor of casual, so much so that I'll probably be getting jabs I've been throwing at folks here for being too powergamey XD )

Anywho, so what the deal with the BoB seems to be:

Core potentially legit issue:

- It's the only prep which doesn't affect anything in the dungeon
- This means that it's interaction with purist is mostly (absolutely?) purely bureaucratic
- This then leads to people forgetting not to prep it on purist runs which screws up the badge

Solution:

- Get it out of the purist badge jurisdiction

Problem:

- That would make it work in a way different from any other prep, which makes it even more of an anomaly
"Why does this one prep, which is selected in the same method as any other prep, not trigger purist?"

Solution:

a) Make it a token.
- Won't work because it'd be prepped on any run and just passively increases the trophy bounty all the time except in non-vicious
b) Make it a token and add a downside
- Well, that's just vicious token then, except with less yield and probably lower penalty.
- It'll also have anyone who's used to having that extra gold per run grumble.
- Also anyone who's used to stacking it with vicious token and flaming dungeon for heaps of cash (if that even works)
c) Remove it from the game entirely and put an actual prep there, while potentially simply upping the throphy bounty
- Is probably what I would've done, lol. Having an unfixable mood dampening hazard (a prep that can inconspiciously cost you a rather difficult to get badge but you only get a heads-up afterwards) isn't all that well thought out to begin with ^^
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