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Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:12 pm
by Flyingkiki
Hi everyone !

I've started playing DD last week, and so as common newbie I'm struggling with the game mechanics. I've watched some tutorial videos and search among QCF & Steam forums, but still I can't find any answers.
I've understood the strike order mechanic and the importance of the "slowed" and the "first strike" buffs, but I don't get this : when I use WEYWUT on an enemy with a higher level than mine, he's slowed. Still if I strike him, I'll take some damage. Is this normal considering he is "slowed" and so with a lower strike order than mine ?
Another example, if I use GETINDARE and then directly strike a higher level enemy (without "First strike"), I'll also get some damage back.

Is the higher level a more important factor than "slowed"/"First strike" buffs, or do I miss something in the game mechanic ? I think all of this is far more deep than I expect :mrgreen:

Thanks in advance for your help ! :)

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:19 pm
by dislekcia
If a creature is still alive after your strike has happened, they'll hit you back if they didn't already hit you first.

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:40 pm
by Flyingkiki
Thanks for your anwser Dislekcia ! :P

So first strike or the slowed debuff should be used only for giving one more shot in order to kill a monster or to strike popcorn (with WEYWUT) ? :)

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 pm
by FDru
The "no retaliation" bit in the description for slowed is a bit misleading. There's no situation where an enemy doesn't get to hit you back when you use a normal attack (unless they die).

What slowing does remove are effects like Blink and Retaliate: Fireball.

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:00 pm
by Nurator
Strike Order is really only important for the last strike (there are some obscure mechanics where this is not true, but dont worry now. As you said, this game is FAR more deep than you can imagine right now :D )

Getindare helps you get one additional strike against any enemy without first strike without retaliation when you cast it right before you kill the monster.

Weytwut is more expensive, but it can slow even first strike monters!

Just keep these two in mind and you are good to go for the next hours of gameplay :D

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:33 pm
by The Avatar
Just to be 100% clear, this is the strike order from fastest to slowest. Although if the monster lives, it will retaliate.
Monster First Strike
Player First Strike
Normal Attacks
Monster Slowed
Player Slowed (this is a rare edge case)

Also, slowed removes blink, cowardly, retaliate: fireball, and first strike.

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:40 pm
by Darvin
The Avatar wrote:Just to be 100% clear, this is the strike order from fastest to slowest...

Not quite comprehensive (sorry to nerd-pick)

There are three abilities that have priority 0, and always win in striking order. These are the Gorgon (player class) death gaze ability, the Assassin swift hands, and the reflex potion. Note that monster death gaze works differently, and uses regular striking order.

Also, first strike ability (either from the GETINDARE glyph or Rogue class feature) cancels out player slow, resulting in normal striking speed.

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:05 pm
by Flyingkiki
Waw thanks a lot, I understand it better now !
Thanls to your advice I was able to clean the Northern Desert dungeon, that was an hour long but I did it :P And these rules were particularly usefull of course...

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:49 pm
by Lujo
Flyingkiki wrote:So first strike or the slowed debuff should be used only for giving one more shot in order to kill a monster or to strike popcorn (with WEYWUT) ? :)


I much like the fact that you've only been playing for 10 days and are allready using the term popcorn :)

And, well, since your dillema's been answered allready, heres a bit of advice - getinder's more of a combat glyph, wheytwut is more of an exploration or popcorn/piety mongering glyph. Both are usefull in combat mind you, and if with a bit of foresight and a lack of better options you can also use the Wonnafyt glyph to slow a same level enemy FTW. It targets non-slowed same level enemies first, so if everything of your level has been slowed and you hit one of them, the next time you cast it it will affect the one you hit as he wont be slowed anymore :)

Darvin wrote:Also, first strike ability (either from the GETINDARE glyph or Rogue class feature) cancels out player slow, resulting in normal striking speed.


I was NOT aware of this. So basicaly the Rogue can pick up platemail and not feel it? And you can use GETINDARE to get around it? If this is true, it's very good to know :) I also like it, since it makes player slow a bit more interactive rather than an all out bummer.

Re: Strike order mechanic

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:54 pm
by Darvin
I was NOT aware of this. So basicaly the Rogue can pick up platemail and not feel it?

He'd lose first-strike against equal and higher-level monsters if he did that, so it's certainly not free. Still, he only takes a one-step drop (first strike to regular strike) rather than a two step drop (first strike to slow strike) which makes it far more usable than it would otherwise be. Assassin also works, with swift hands always preempting monsters even with the Assassin is slowed.

That said, he can still clean up his popcorn with platemail on, and then convert it just before the final hit against the boss.