The Grand Collection of Fails

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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby sitnaltax on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:18 pm

Still working on Purist VGT.

My latest attempt I thought might be the one. Dwarf Rogue, scummed for first floor GG. Found HALPMEH, BYCEPPS, and a Witchalok Pendant, and a Vampiric Blade was available. Pactmaker came early, and the first six levels went well. Level 7 was the dreaded Binlor + full reveal, just when I was running out of blackspace. Damn.

OK, well, I'll just blow the last of my piety, take Consensus, and switch to Drac now; earlier than I had planned but with luck it could still work. Blew the last of my piety on a Protection, then...

I had, of course, forgotten that taking a Pact disables Consensus. With no resources left, that run hit an inglorious end.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby caviar on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:46 pm

sitnaltax wrote:I had, of course, forgotten that taking a Pact disables Consensus.


Damn. :( Reminds me of a failed VGT run where I for some reason switched from drac to another god after taking 3 layers of sanguine. Turns out that the cumulative piety bonus for soaking up bloodpools with more layers of sanguine resets if you leave drac and then go back to him later - eg. I was getting 1 piety per pool as opposed to the expected 3..
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Astral on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:58 pm

Yeah the sanguine reset can hit very hard. Thankfully I learned that on other dungeons when I was dicking around with Halflings so it didn't ruin any VGT run yet. The no consensus after body pact though...
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby caviar on Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:18 pm

Just learned the hard way that the mages in the wand of splosion subdungeon count towards mystera's punishment. :(
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:27 pm

Decided to be a complete jerk and went Goblin Thief - Warmonger - Ick Swamp with Vicious Token, and for some reason decided GG was the way to go. Turns out it was all working great untill I figured out I had nothing at all on the map that would allow me to kill - Medusa. Because 100% deathgaze. There wasn't even a Badge of Courage, and I've allready desecrated Binlor.

Wouldn't have been a problem if I just went Taurog or Drac, but nooooo, I had to go to the one guy who can't do anything about that (and also additionally clogs your inventory). And the strangest thing is that I would've probably been able to kill her with my one dodge + reflex if I hadn't absolutely arsed up my Enlightment timing - I thought Cleansing would have an effect on Itssama, but forgot that he has both kinds of resists, and this one mistimed cleansing caused my run to tumble down badly. And the subdungeon was "contemplate the waters" - on a warmonger run.

Soooo close, sooo much fail :(

EDIT!

No, wait, it was an EVEN BIGGER FAIL. What I could've done was simply dodgestep her, and that would put her at one hit away, buy the Hero Helm I had in the shop, ding via conversion (wasn't a problem)... and then just convert the helm. I believe this would've left me at 5 overheal and I would've killed her. D'oh!
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Tinker on Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:15 am

Lujo wrote:No, wait, it was an EVEN BIGGER FAIL. What I could've done was simply dodgestep her, and that would put her at one hit away, buy the Hero Helm I had in the shop, ding via conversion (wasn't a problem)... and then just convert the helm. I believe this would've left me at 5 overheal and I would've killed her. D'oh!

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think that you would have gained overheal automatically from converting a max health boost item. I think your current health would have dropped. I know that overheal stays if you already have it, and your health increases.

I was Elf Rogue-ing yesterday and I had an almost (and a real) fail. So almost fail was on Cursed Oasis: I went with the early-converting Mystera version, so I was all fireball-y, and I then realized at the end that the Curse Dragon has Retaliate. Damn I keep forgetting Retaliate! But luckily as this version does not rely on Refreshment, I had tons of Piety, so I converted to Taurog for the final boss fight and slapped the dragon to kingdom come the unsophisticated way.

Then later on the same day, I did a TT Elf Rogue in Rock Garden, it went well until I decided to kill Jadetooth. As he was slowed when I attacked him, I did not realize that he has Retaliate (see the pattern?). So I just went Attack - Fireball, of course not the other way around, what benefit would that have? Anyway, it's so very rare that I actually manage to get a death screen, so the moment did have it's peculiarity, even if it was not a happy one. :(
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:38 am

^ How was Michael Bay doing for you in Rock Garden? Made any money? :)

But, yeah, random fireball retaliation is one of those sneaky deathtraps people keep walking into over and over and over. No telling how many times I've burnt (lol) a perfectly good VGT run on the fireball retaliation floor. What is this suspiciously curseless floor now? You check yourself, see nothing on yourself, see a peculiar boss, think "Hmm, I guess that's it, I'll just fireball this guy over here, and a-one, and a-two, and a-" burns self to crisp.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Tinker on Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:51 pm

Lujo wrote:^ How was Michael Bay doing for you in Rock Garden? Made any money? :)

I died too soon to really "cash in", but in any case I'm not sure I played the TT version properly. I just realized that I've criminally underplayed TT - or, to be more accurate, I've not underplayed TT, but rather I've played him in a very one-sided way. So I'm gonna take my "Elf Rogue" chronicles as a good opportunity to remedy that.

In any case, I'm a bit stuck with the number of moving parts.
1. I can do a bit of overexploration & mana -> piety farming, and then pick up, let's say, 2 levels of learning and 1 level of dodge, without having to kill anything. That's 30 extra GP that I can use.
1.a. I can spend the extra money on shop junk and just boost my Mana. Though that will give me, maybe, 2 thresholds. It's a perk but feels suboptimal.
1.b. I can spend the money on some powerful items. This can net a 1 or 2 extra items that are relevant, i.e. mana pendant, or maybe even a quest/elite item. Might make more sense than just shop junk, though it depends on what spawns.
2. I can kill at L+2/3 for levelling, thanks also to Learning probably 1 kill / level, to something like L7. This is Piety neutral. Then I can start killing off popcorn to farm piety to complement the XP from my one high-level kill, this can allow me to take - after killing 15 monsters - a 3rd level of Learning.
3. Total bonus XP is sky high, if I do end up killing everyone, it will be cca. 100 XP just from Learning, adding to the 4+ bonus XP I score per level for my higher level kill, it reaches 130+, so I depending on how I want to manage the boss fight, it can allow at least 2 level-ups, maybe even 3. Good news, all this without having to explore anything, just leveraging the level-up refills, so if there's blackspace left, I can even refill via exploration between bosses.

I'm kind of at this point now, but it's mostly theoretical. The good news about Rogue is you seldom need to worry about getting hit (due to low health), and if you find CYDSTEPP, you just get indulgences to get away with using it. But I have difficulty getting my mana above the 20-25 range without any mana boost type boons (Magic / Enlightenment / Boost Mana), which makes the restorations a bit lackluster. I just played a JJ version, after 4 shots of Boost Mana and 3 shots of Boost Health, I had cca. 40 mana & 140 health. Which allows me to go for, generally, one more level higher kill at the minimum, so the bonus XP will be tangible at least for the leveling part; and then the lack of bonus XP for the popcorn is offset by the fact that the higher health/mana pools just make restorations that much more satisfying. I.e. with this setup I didn't need to mid-fight level-up against Count Blahblah on an Eastern Tundra test run, I just facetanked him from max pools at L9. I think that the JJ version is even better than the Mystera version, generally, though the Mystera version is really neat & fun too. The TT version is yet to blow my mind, though.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Tinker on Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:09 pm

btw I just bought a spoon for 1501 Gold. It was an impulse purchase, I thought it will only cost 1 gold, but then they billed me for the remaining 1500 just after check-out.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:25 pm

Tinker wrote:The TT version is yet to blow my mind, though.


I'm not sure it will, in fact I'm kinda sure it won't :(

One thing is - if you're peekabooing with the JJ version, you're probably getting more from JJ than any active tester was from the current JJ during the beta, so we kinda judged other gods for power at another scale (the devs might've not, I'm not sure). He was usable, but considered generally to be underpowered because when he was stronger he was overused so he had been overnerfed. With pekaboo, you're basically playing JJ at a power level (likely even above the power level) that was nerfed down to the non-peekaboo JJ. I'm not sure most other gods can compete with it for raw numbers, especially on a dedicated elf. I suppose the devs probably did test him or knew about peekaboo, but the general JJ feedback from the players would've looked different if we knew about it. So it's deffinitely above curve, possibly by a lot.

TT spellcasting (or prepping) was, on the other hand, undertested because I guess most people felt that the penalty was too harsh to be prepping him anywhere. Elves were also kinda underplayed in favor of Gnomes in general (at least by the more vocal testers). Because if we did test it we would've probably tried to explain to the devs that the build is rather fun and cool but flounders and is all over the place in terms of potential benefits depending on a lot of RNG factors (glyphs, shops, subdungeons).

The pros it has (if any) over JJ, is mostly in the inventory space, an item or two, not spending any of your mana potions, and having acess to a string of Dodge potions if you need any. It's more Roguey than Elfy, and it doesn't go as high with the mana pool as the JJ (or I guess Mystera one) does. Nor with the health, which is another benefit of the JJ build, which also turns into B2P benefits. With JJ you possibly get fewer levels, but they count for a lot more (up to and maybe even over double). The hicckup is that getting TT piety takes either your popcorn or your money, and both are kinda the rewards of the approach, so it's a bit self defeating unless you desecrate something else.

If you're looking to match the JJ Elf, don't even bother - anything that could do that was nerfed. It's mostly because at any given point 25 mana was considered "a large mana pool". Really, you're at 1 Cydstep per mana potion on a Gnome Warlord (or before Cydstep nerfs on a Gnome Rogue as well) with 25 mana, and that was kinda the benchmark for "you have way too much power at your disposal", that's what you went for if you wanted to cheeze your mana, because at that point the Warlord just shi*s all over any semblance of balance.

In fact, because of the old JJ (who may or may evn not have been much or at all stronger than Peeaboo JJ) it took this community kinda forever to discover a lot of other stuff, and if took an outright disabling nerf to Cydstepp (worse than it was now) to put that whole thing aside so that we can test the rest of the game and also kinda be able to tell whether a particular dungeon was even doable with anything else.

Peeaboo JJ kinda illustrates why I've been more inclined to call for nerfs when something like that happens rather than keeping it around. If you go around comparing similar stuff to it, it'll all kinda seem laclustre. If you expect other stuff to match it, you won't get your mind blown. TT Elf Rogue is rather great at 18 or 24 mana, but it takes effort and has a way harder time generating piety while cashing in on benefits, while JJ Rogue goes way above that in terms of what you get out of a Ding, while having a way easier time setting itself up. Mystera Elf Rogue probably works fine at 20 piety (also the Warlord Cydstepp threshold with Mystic balance for both glyphs and potions). Most (if not all) of the game isn't really balanced with numbers bigger than that in mind, because once you're over that threshold, you've allready won (or rather, the Warlord did).

And that's kinda the whole deal. Probably also the reason Elves got how much mana they get out of a CP pop reduced from what it used to be in the Alpha. Maybe there's more to it, the Devs and possibly Darvin could explain it better or correct me or something...
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