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The Grand Collection of Fails

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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Tinker on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:21 pm

"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Astral on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:03 am

Some answers to your previous post:

1.When you have a lot of gold on an elf and want to become a better spellcaster your priority for items should be: efficiency based spellcasting items, cheap max mana items, CP fodder, refill potions, expensive max mana items, even more CP.

2. Starting the bossfight at lvl 7 sounds like a waste. I usually do that on non-TT elves. The point of learning is that you can ding a lot, more than regular guys, so you can start the bossfight sooner without the worry you run out of popcorn but the boss is still alive. You could hold off popcorn munching in the belief that prestige dings benefit you more, but numerous lower level ones are better at bosskilling.

I think there a 3 major ways of playing TT. The dodgestep striker, the multiding caster and the dodging poisonous regenfighter who converts out asap after picking up the boons.

For the caster to get the most benefit out of TT you should piety farm a lot, pick up 2 points of learning before killing any popcorn, get a 3rd one midway and spend your gold on powerful spellcasting items (BM ring, CB, Dragon Soul etc.).
If you see a good spellcasting god it's probably worth converting into more than taking a 3rd point in learning.

If you haven't tried it already give an Elf Assassin of TT a try, explore a lot (but leave some blackspace in subs and obviously useless tiles) and start popcorn munching/boss battling at lvl 2-3.
When you're not playing an Assassin you should take into consideration that consuming lvl 9s would be a pain, so try removing them and only start the bossfight later.

Since you're not measuring TT to exploitive JJ, I can say the benefit over him is having more gold, a huge string of dings for ridiculous amounts of refills, and a different experience if you're looking for variety.

Btw peakaboo JJ is not just about having more boons, it's having them extremely fast as soon as lvl1 and 100 more piety to abuse your next god. And then possibly your 3rd one too.

I agree that JJ isn't weak without peakaboing, if you don't mind spamming glyphs it's a more powerful but less convenient MA.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:23 am

*Not saying JJ's all that weak, or even not worth prepping or using - the wheytwut alone is worth it. Just that dedicated peekaboo kinda takes him back to where he was when he got nerfed for being a complete jackass and that that's kinda hard to match. And a deffinite YES about the speed - get both your health and mana up and find a B2P, it's well and truly insane.

As for the Michael Bay - I'm testing it out, and I'll be able to say for sure when I get to proper Vicious Runs (I haven't yet unlocked any Vicious dungeons), and also when I get my bank up a bit.

Regardless, it really depends on what you're trying to achieve, the ole effort/efffect ratio and what lets you save what. The problem with the build is that dumping cash into one level of Tikki's Edge still doesn't really get you anywhere because you don't really want to be munching on your popcorn as it rises in value and it doesn't get you anything if you don't kill a lot of stuff. Which you don't really want to do. Getting an Imawal would serve you better, so you get more out of kills and need fewer kills to get to a point where everything is popcorn.

But then you have no piety, and unless you eventually dump money into him, you still won't have any piety. That's the problem with the build - it's a really strong Rogue build which lets you play a honest-to-god and fun glass cannon Rogue (which has historically been the last thing anyone ever did, everyone exploited the fact that it's too easy to turn him into a tank in a million ways). But in order to get piety for the end ding spike, you need to spend the popcorn, and if you spend the popcorn - you lose out on the spike.

Oddly enough, investing in damage might actually be the ticket. That way you need a smaller mana pool, and build towards both dingage and a string of potions, and you're still a glass cannon hybrid. That's just an idea. There's just no way to have both the popcorn and the piety, that's why it's always suboptimal compared to JJ, Mystera or even GG.

I still think it's a very viable option on Naga City (and maybe some other places), because there you don't use the popcorn for the spike and can cash in on having a ton of Learning + Big Mana Pool + Lots of Money, but don't actually need the popcorn and can just pick up Mystera downstairs and destroy everything.

I'd have to play around with it more, which I certainly will, probably every time I get to play a rogue, maybe I figure out what's the best way to take it. For Naga City, the best I think is to get a pair of Midas Gloves, munch on all the popcorn topside, get a lot of his boons but don't sink the money and sink the money into stuff below. I mean, the best things to buy otherwise would be Crystal Ball, Dragon Soul and Schadenfraude (and Mage Plate obv.) because a TT elf CAN cheeze those and it lets you munch on more popcorn as it should handle the refills with ease (provided you got something to hit you for schaden).

It's a VERY open ended bit, with high highs and low lows depending on the RNG, and tricy constrictions. Fun!

-----

Otherwise, in a map like Dragon Isles - you can take a completely different approach, and that's start to fireball REALLY early while munching on popcorn like mad. It's essentially what you have to do on that map anyway. The great thing about that is that you end up with a dead boss and a lot of TT piety and then you can either swap out or get a crapload of dodgestep.

If you wanna try to really cheeze it, though, you can always go Fabulous Treasure. That thing reliably fuels jut about any TT strat (and would probably boost this one sky-high, as it's hybridy and conversiony as they get). And that's somethign you can't do with JJ, I just wanted to see how well it works before applying the bleeding edge in La Fromage to it.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:20 am

Also, I just did a Fabulous Treasure Elf Assassin Vicious Token run in Doubledoom. Was very unfavourable in terms of RNG, I still made it handily with proper play (and plenty of oversights, like forgetting I have a free pair of Elven Boots and all sorts of other things). No source of slow and no way to acess the secret Subdungeon, either, and until I killed the first boss no money for CB (on a Fabulous treasure TT run, no less XD). Picture in the diary thread.

With Fabulous Treasure I thing the Rogue might be perfectly legit, allthough the assassin is 100% legit - Not just because Swift Hands bieing broken by design, but because of Apheelsick which did a lot of work. The RNG was NOT with me on this one.

EDT: Also, did a Michael Bay Assassin in Ick Swamp, VT without Fabuolus Treasure, didn't even cheeze the plant piery. Details in the thread, I'll do some VT Rogues at some point, this needed an Assassin for the Naga City unlock.

Short writeups and preps/ends screens in the history thread.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Astral on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:13 pm

How do you screw up 1st floor GG, and 2nd floor Pm on a purist Human Rogue with a good selection of glpyhs and items?
By taking Warrior's pact in excitement :P

It was so funny not being able to take Enlightenment for so little extra health that it practically never allowed me to tank +1 hit.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Tinker on Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:22 am

I just got a PQI: Halfling Bloodmage on Dragon Isles with Ding!Max!. Since L10 is practically guaranteed, I gladly took the challenge! I mean, what could be easier than a Halfling Bloodmage...

Try 1 I went Earthmother + Codex, and realized how horribly subterranean the Matron is. Which I kind of knew, case in point, go to sleep when normal humans do (not my strong suit). I systematically walled myself off so I decided to change strategies, and bravely ran away to cut my losses.

Try 2 I went a very basic JJ + Titan Guitar (the memory of being walled off undoubtedly influenced the locker item), knowing it's hard to go wrong with this combo. So I misclicked my Slaying Wand on the very first zombie I selected to view its stats, which is kind of frustrating. Anyway, Bloodmage is a very forgiving class, you can make a lot of mistakes early and it's still a bulldozer late game, so I killed Firstborn at L7 and PISORFed/slapped the Matron to kingdom come. Of course I managed to trigger my mid-fight level up at full mana (anyone can do it on an empty bar, real style starts when you don't mind wasting the 26 Mana hoarded together by 3x Boost Mana & Mage Plate).

There's a moral to this story but I'll let everyone figure it out for themselves ... 8-)
(my take-aways: sleep is for the weak; bloodmage rocks despite stupid player; gnome >>> halfling)
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby The Tapir on Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:11 am

Made a run through the Assassin Gold challenge, and found myself doing surprisingly well. I got lucky with HALPMEH for Draugr's poison, and was having a fun time cavorting through the berserkers after he died.

Then while cleaning up the berserkers, I forgot that light foot only applies to enemies that are completely revealed.

Facepalmed so hard.

On the bright side, I did get to 5 prestige, so at least there's some achievement.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby The Tapir on Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:34 pm

Thought that I could take on Demonic Library given that I've gone through nearly every other vicious dungeon. I thought wrong. I literally converted EVERYTHING that I could save for Burndayraz on my goblin sorceror in an attempt to at least get the Avatar to half health. I can't seem to make even a dent into that dungeon on either the demon lords or the Avatar himself. Any advice? I'd really like to get the Codex at some point to play around with.
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Lujo on Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:55 pm

^ Orc Wizard with Binlor for Pissorf and swap into whatever. Worked demoralizingly well for me this morning, just remember to slap one of the avatars into the avatar, and whatever else into the phys resist guy topside to bypass the resists. And if possible two red djinns into one another. Check the glyph/class concept thread for the screenie, and the bloggy playthrough thread for the preps if you want.

I just had 2 nice runs with a parched JJ Halfling in the Labyrinth. The failed one failed, because I've totaly done everything right up untill the 2nd boss - when I noticed all my popcorn was slowed and I couldn't trigger dodgestep dodge. D'oh!
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Re: The Grand Collection of Fails

Postby Astral on Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:12 pm

^Couldn't you solve that by killing those popcorn for more dodgestep and quaffing a 2nd quicksilver for 100% dodge?
I believe that resets your dodge, and even guarantees it.

@The Tapir
I'm with Lujo on that. Orc Wiz of Binlor will smash the place, whether you use Pisorf or not against the Avatar. If I can recommend you, pack Bearmace and take extra attack boosters. Thanks to Binlor's boons your damage will be so high you will put Rogues to tears.
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