God prep uses

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God prep uses

Postby Idealect on Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:14 pm

My eyes have been opened to the power of the god prep

I made a list of some uses for them when their penalty is negated, irrelevant, or ameliorated.

Jehora "loose cannon" Jeheyu: miser runs, dragon soul wizard, expensive items, low gold, item conversion, vamp? crusader?? any other time you can avoid wanting that last inv space. patches?? In a dungeon were a debuff wipe will be useful

Earthmother: paladin can spend all piety and kill plants before level up. With platemail to make a supertank.

Tikki tooki: lategame conversion only for popcorn farming for potions.
Rogue.

Taurog: monk (magic attack enemies v dangerous though don’t convert burnday)
berserker
Half dragon (knockbacks anyway) untested
rogue (oneshot anyway, high regen efficiency)
Taurog just has hella strong early game and you can afford to cast some glyphs anyway. Take compression seal.

Mystera: Anything that starts with a glyph, takes flame magnet, and anything in general There's a penalty to piety gain but you get to start earlier. Good with berserker to guarantee a mystic balance and eliminate his only weakness.

Glowing guardian. Very harsh penalty. +2n (or is it 2(n-1)?) piety per level up instead of n*(n+1). Hard to imagine using this one but it would be most likely to be worth if it you had ways to get piety other ways from him: parched for potion conversion, mana burning and poisoning enemies, if you start with burn for burnt offering, if zombies are enemies, if you need his boons (clearing corrosion/poison/burn, giving more max hp. Maybe humility is just good enough a reason by itself?

Binlor. Binlor prepped is just binlor but with 30% less max boons, which is irrelevant unless you’re a paladin, and with you starting off with his -10 piety per level policy and no endiswall glyph. If the level is open to knockback smashing early this is an advantage, if not, you might find yourself on binlor’s treadmill. Good on monks?

Dracul. Dracul is Dracul but 25% (more? 25% less piety and 25% less effects from boons) weaker. Not bad at all either, though there is little advantage to joining him early. Good if guaranteeing dracul is important or just for the convenience/fun of wanting to play dracul. Good if you expect his fakelevel boon to not make a difference. Good if there are 0 or 1 undead types on a level. You don't get piety any faster for being with dracul unless you conert your hp potions or convert holy magic: you get 2 per kill whether or not you're worshipping or from conversion, and you avoid the penalty for killing undead if you don't sign up.


Add your own and/oror correct my assumptions.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Lujo on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:32 pm

Where do I start ^^

(this is just me, remember, other people have other tendencies and experiences)

JJ - Prep a compression seal, if you want to substitute his penalty for "one less small item slot + no alchemist prep". Otherwise if you're looking for prepping him outweighting the risks: Gnome Warlords can get silly mana pools, Halfling bloodmages can have about double the natural health pool at lvl 3, meaning a health potion refills a natural lvl3 health pool, and B2P doesn't count percentages so you can really go nuts. JJ is absolutely best found early for piety generation purposes and the fact that you can get mileage out of his boons every time you level up during a fight.

EM - You need plants for clearance to refill your mana. You also need piety for Clearance. But to generate plants you need to pick up boons which costs piety. Her penalty means more plants generated from other boons, so you got more plants AND more piety for clearances, as well as extra plants to IMAWAL for piety. This alone makes prepping her very often strictly superior to finding her, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. It would take me hours to list everything you can do and get from a guaranteed EM.

TT - you're aware that prepping TT is the cornerstone of a rather reliable lvl1 boss kill strategy which can take down SMM at lvl1? But you're right, you prep him not to worship him early, but rather to join later, allthough if you prep and join him early with a ton of gold and a fireball you can really go silly in several ways.

Taurog - Monk OR Berserker. Go nuts. If you don't run into the tower of goo the dungeon is likely screwed, or at least your interaction with most of the objects in a dungeon becomes really simple.

Mystera - yeah, spam off the bat, with anything, become a kickass spellcaster soonish. A cheezy thing to do is prep her for a dungeon with a magic resistant boss and spam weakenings instead.

GG - harsh-looking prep penalty, but also the most effortless piety generated in the game. You gain piety by converting stuff and leveling up, which is what you want to do anyway (and a warmonger converts stuff like mad, and the potion races convert for conversion fodder). As long as you always go for parched anyway you can prep him on every run just in case, and simply convert out if you decide to use the potions. I had a phase where I litterally perpped him everywhere because it was like playing without a god except my piety kept going up, and I had a bunch of restores and debuffs from him handy if I ever needed them.

And this is actually one of the most "easy mode" solutions to anything - if you know you're gonna go against a physical resistant boss, one of GG's boons turns your attack to magic for one strike. And costs 10 piety. Enjoy never taking physical resistant enemies seriously again (well, as long as you have GG handy).

Binlor - destroys walls if you prep him. You know those mazy, hard to navigate dungeons? Prep Binlor. He also hands out a PISSORFF so prepping him is actually the default "magnet: PISSORF" prep, which is kick ass for orc spellcasters (and wizards and bloodmages in general). Oh, and he hands out an Endiswall so anyone who's patient enough can get their magic resists up to max anywhere most likely. Oh, and he also guarantees +40% knockback and might on wall destruction so anyone can get a big chunk of damage along with his wall removal map hacking. Tied with EM for "silliest swiss army cannon battery" prep in the game in my experience.

Dracul - well, he's a late game powerhouse and if you're prepping him you probably only really want to secure him. With the right sort of character this means you've got your endgame secured from the get go, and the gaeplay revolves more around finding the boss and leveling up (and you can also probably pick up a few boons along the way which help piety generation) However, there's stuff in the game that works surprisingly well with an early Dracul, chief among the various halflings and bloodmages if you play them right. Thing about Dracul's prep penalty is that you'll rarely ever feel it, as he's strong enough in general to take it.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Darvin on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:34 pm

Jehora "loose cannon" Jeheyu

If you're packing the right preps, he's a big softie. A burn cure salve and a compression seal goes a long way to reducing his bite, and you'll have petition in no time flat.

Earthmother: paladin can spend all piety and kill plants before level up. With platemail to make a supertank.

The best approach to the Earthmother prep is with fireball specialists. Use greenblood to greatly increase the amount of damage you inflict. Due to the additional plants generated from her "penalty", you can use clearance more aggressively for further mana spikes.

One of the most ironic uses of the Earthmother is to use her to generate piety, convert to another god and desecrate her. Because she has the least threatening desecration penalty and grants so much piety so easily, she's very useful in this regard. Jehora Jeheyu works particularly well as a destination deity in these cases.

Tikki tooki: lategame conversion only for popcorn farming for potions.

I don't prep him. The penalty is too steep, you gain little from early worship, and you can always just go 4-altar and hope for something good in the long-run.

Taurog just has hella strong early game and you can afford to cast some glyphs anyway.

Very useful for pursuing Warmonger badges, but beyond that I'd rather go with a god who doesn't hog up my whole inventory. I'll usually take Earthmother or Binlor if I just want early piety gain.

Mystera: Anything that starts with a glyph, takes flame magnet, and anything in general There's a penalty to piety gain but you get to start earlier. Good with berserker to guarantee a mystic balance and eliminate his only weakness.

Mystera is great, particularly if you can begin worship early and ensure you get refreshment before you convert your glyphs.

Glowing guardian. Very harsh penalty. +2n (or is it 2(n-1)?) piety per level up instead of n*(n+1). Hard to imagine using this one but it would be most likely to be worth if it you had ways to get piety other ways from him

Not nearly as bad as it sounds. The GG is at his strongest if you begin worship at the 1st level and most of his boons are actually inexpensive. So long as you aren't going for Enlightenment, you won't run into piety issues in spite of the penalty.

Absolution is awesome at the 1st level, since you can easily triple your max hit points, and humility leveraged from the very beginning is superb. Leverage protection once or twice before converting out, and you've gotten a lot of value out of GG.

Binlor. Binlor prepped is just binlor but with 30% less max boons, which is irrelevant unless you’re a paladin, and with you starting off with his -10 piety per level policy and no endiswall glyph. If the level is open to knockback smashing early this is an advantage, if not, you might find yourself on binlor’s treadmill. Good on monks?

Superb on maze dungeons.

Dracul. Dracul is Dracul but 25% (more? 25% less piety and 25% less effects from boons) weaker. Not bad at all either, though there is little advantage to joining him early.

As with Tikki Tooki, I'd rather just go with 4-altar and hope for something good. Dracul doesn't lend himself to early worship, so there's little benefit to having him near the dungeon entrance and you may as well just hope you find something nice. Nothing is worse than grabbing lifesteal and then getting a bloodless boss.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Blovski on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:43 pm

Jehora: Because of Weytwut Half-dragons, or anyone who needs repositioning guaranteed. Hence the self-cannon strategy for the Labyrinth (use Death Protections or health to absorb hits from Rexx and thus fight both bosses at once) also needs
it. Also, you want Jehora early if you want him because of the way piety gain works.

Tikki Tooki: If you have a ton of money coming in (from transmutation seal hijinks), or are an assassin, he's actually very decent prepped. I had a strat prepping the False Beard (gimmick item +5XP) as a fighter with Prepped Tikki. You can do the same with an Amulet of Yendor or a Goblin.

Taurog: his prep penalty is probably the least significant and can be leveraged as an advantage. Also he's a great piety farm so he's rarely actually a bad choice unless you're doing *ridiculous* amounts of spellcasting.

Mystera: The prep penalty and the early use cancel each other out.

Dracul: Dracul is always a great god to have around for the late game. I wouldn't really prep him for early game use unless I was doing the Dracul Paladin thing.

GG: It's the amount of usefulness he offers early game that's the big deal here to offset the big prep cost. Loads of bonus HP and humility. Also he offers cleansing, which can be essential taking on maps with lots of physical resist enemies as a barbarian or rogue.

Binlor: The prep does involve more impassible tiles, and it's quite a big deal on a few maps. Again, it's there for a guaranteed glyph (Pisorf and Endiswal) but also because it's a really reliable way of boosting your magic resistance to very high levels. If you prep him, consider going with Smuggler's Den as well, because that'll give you some extra walls to smash.

Earthmother: Double plant growth makes it good for the late-game mana refill monster. If you're going with the EM Paladin, I would recommend taking a Soul Orb with you. Really helps with the gardening, since you can halpme out of poison and greenblood out of curse.

Essentially, what prepping an altar gives you is A) reliability and B) earlier boon access and piety generation. This is almost always much more valuable than the penalty that comes for prepping it if you know how to use the god. Most Vicious dungeon strats rely on a prepped god for this reason.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Darvin on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:45 pm

Blovski wrote:Jehora: Because of Weytwut

I completely forgot about WEYTWUT, how did I do that? Seriously, as far as "good glyphs to have at the start of the game" go, it's one of the best out there. De-clog dungeon passages, set up bonus experience for later, and gives you a first strike finisher option? Awesome stuff!
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Lujo on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:28 pm

^ On a simmilar note, how in the world did I manage to forget the prep Earthmother + Burn salve. That's the -1 altar +25 piety and 3 Indulgences prep. IF you don't grab her first, get mileage from her and then convert out. I've stopped actually using her this way since she's so good if you want to prep her that I rarely ever converted out as time went by...

EDIT: Some more random stuff (turned into a bloody guide):

- Early dracul + heath boosts (say a health pendant) + B2P (say bloodmage) + Halfling (for burst piety). Don't take anything but lifesteal and bloodswells untill you run out of blackspace. It probably won't beat vicios but it's fun and different. They all have a boon which kind of let you handle a boss on their own, and if you know which spike trumps which boss you'll know what to prep or pick up in which case.

GLYPHS & Spikes:

Most gods you prep give you a glyph and an opportunity to farm loads of piety which you can use to jump to a different god if you run into a boss your original god isn't best suited for. So many gods are a "magnet: glyph" preps on top of being an ability dispenser.

- Binlor

Penalty: Makes some of the wall tiles dissapear and some of the WALL tiles unpassable terrain instead. Marking this because I think someone was confused thinking the impassable terrain can spawn where there's be no wall otherwise. Allthough having him clog the level up properly instead of decloging it would be more appropriate for what he can hand out.

Glyph: PISSORFF. The biggest lesson I've learned from doing all the mage class chalenges is that there is another damaging glyph except burndayraz in the game and just how good it is. It's kind of situational, but unless you're profficent with it some things in the game seem much harder than they actually are.

Spike: Stoneskin - full phys res for one hit. +30% damage if you took the other boon before.

- TT

Penalty: Every hit you take costs you 3 piety. Since you get getindare from him, and you're not likely to prep him with something that trades blow for blow anyway, it's not really a huge penalty TBH. Looks harsh, but if you abide by his rules, you don't get hit much and this actually makes you play better. And he's a huge piety farm who allows you to sink bloody gold into him for piety. The only real way to screw yourself over is if you don't convert out before going on a path with no return (and sometimes not even then).

- Gives GETINDARE. Effectively reduces the health of anything you can first strike FTW by an ammount equal to your physical damage. One of the reasons I like the penalty is that if there wasn't any people would be running around with an effortless GETINDARE on any run, and that's just silly.

- Spike - Most obvious one is the potions. 2 full physical blows on anything without getting a scratch in return per set of potions. They're incredibly usefull.

Taurog:

- Penalty: Everything becomes cowardly. It very rarely means anything. Can be annoying and surprisingly effective sometimes, other times stuff conviniently moves out of your way.

- Glyph: No glyph, obv.

- Spike - a string of DP's which requires you to fill your inventory up. It's still a string of DP's.

Dracul:

- Penalty: There's more bloodless stuff. Big deal, if Drac isn't on the board bloodpools are likely just art assets, and except in very rare cases the entire map is bloodless for all you care. If he is on the board, once you're ready for sanguine, art assets refill your health if you take sanguine, or you get your health refilled by piety. Which you can get a lot off by using art assets to heal yourself. And killing stuff, which is what you'd do anyway. So if you run into him in a dungeon 100% blood pool art assets heal you, and if you prep him only 75% blood pool art assets heal you?

- Glyph: None. Would be kinda over the top if he had any, don't you think?

- Spike: Art asset spike! And after you're done, then bloodswell your health back up to full (mind the curse though).

Mystera:

Penalty: You generate piety slower. If you're a heavy prepper as you seem to be, you'll be prepping her so often you'll start thinking of this as her default piety generation rate. Because you'll rarely ever be playing a class that wants to worship her and not prep her. Untill you get bored and then you'll have a nice surprise when you pick her up and she generates piety a bit faster. Not a really significant bit, though.

Glyph: None, but if you're worshiping her or prepping her it's rather likely that you either have one or have prepped magnet:Fireball

Spike: A bit different than the other gods, but her Refreshment boon lets you convert glyphs for mana. One more reason to keep stuff lying around and time your conversions

JJ:

Penalty: One less item slot. TBH, this seems like the harshest one, and I don't really understand it. It likely has some logic behind it, and I'm curious about what it is, as it's probably sensible. Prep a compression seal, JJ is much, much more useable if found right off the bat than in any other circumstance for various reasons and it's really not that great of a price to pay.

Glyph: Wheytwut - it's either a big mana heavy duty first strike mech, or more importantly a way to always have a popcorn bowl setup tool at your disposal. Frankly the latter is a good enough reason to fall into a habit of casually prepping JJ on any run with mostly anything.

Spike: No explicit one, but his glyph and all of his boons complement level cannon strategies. You do that with popcorn so you don't really need a specific boon for that, the glyhp helps you set up popcorn, 2 boons let you stock up on stats, one boon gives you a free ding and one lets you gamble on another refill if you want.

Earthmother:

Penalty: Picking up boons gives out more plants. Sure, it's a penalty if you clog up the level too hard. On the other hand, she lets you clear the plants with a boon which also refills your mana. She seems to work better prepped than found TBH.

Glyph: IMAWAL lets you alter the XP curve if used consistently, farm EM piety, and also gives +1 XP if you stone a slowed monster. She also has a boon which you take once and every monster on the map is slowed. You have to get into a habit to learn to appreciate it.

Spike: Well, she gives you 10 mana per clarance as long as there's plants. And if you've prepped her, it doesn't take much to get as many plants out there as you want. Not to mention that she gives more piety per kill than Drac does, only it leaves plants in place of bloodpools, and you then use piety + plants to get a boatload of mana via clearance.


Notice that this is all general, "use with anything more or less efficently" stuff. Game becomes much more relaxing once you start tinking this way instead of in terms of "optimal" or "this works with class X" or "have to have this and this and this" terms.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby flap on Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:29 am

Lujo wrote:Notice that this is all general, "use with anything more or less efficently" stuff. Game becomes much more relaxing once you start tinking this way instead of in terms of "optimal" or "this works with class X" or "have to have this and this and this" terms.


Very true.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Lujo on Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:42 am

I also forgot GG

Penalty: Less XP from level ups. Well, it'll probably put Enlightment out of your reach (or will it?). IDK, quite a bit of GG piety comes from conversions anyway, and you do get some leveling piety. There's quite a few ways to leverage an early GG (he is in fact quite front loaded so to speak), and if you're prepping him for warmonger you might not even notice. Also, I'm not sure if he was scumming or not, but Astral has been getting Enlightment on Gorgons of all things, so it's probably not that bad.

Glyph: No glyph, but no need for a glyph.

Spike: If the boss is physical resistant just chain Cleansings, otherwise it's Protection spam.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Kestrel on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:21 am

Enlightenment is a newbie trap most of the time anyway.

On a side note, I think the prep costs are backwards, and prepping specific gods should cost more gold and 4-altar less to encourage people to experiment.
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Re: God prep uses

Postby Blovski on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:44 pm

Whether GG prep puts Enlightenment out of reach depends on A) class (i.e. Paladin or not), B) good piety gen and C) amount of XP in the dungeon. At the moment Enlightenment is kinda too expensive for what it does imho but I'd say if you want Enlightenment and a decent amount of beads you can get it. The real clincher is whether you can get Enlightenment + necessary cleansings + convert out.
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