hidden boss modifiers

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hidden boss modifiers

Postby collapsinghrung on Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:43 pm

I was trying to compile a table of boss health and damage. It turns out that random bosses in "normal" HARD dungeons have slightly more health and damage than the same bosses in Doubledoom, and significantly less health and damage than the same bosses in Grimm's Grotto. This is so strange that I wanted to make sure it was intentional. :/
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Re: hidden boss modifiers

Postby collapsinghrung on Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:07 pm

I recall reading a thread a while back which observed that, according to the steam stats, berserker camp has a very high success rate.

I also notice that the random boss in berserker camp has stats appropriate to a NORMAL dungeon, not a hard one...
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Re: hidden boss modifiers

Postby Blovski on Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:33 pm

Yeah, Grimms is definitely deliberate (since the only challenge of the level is tougher enemies). I expect Doubledoom is. I'm surprised about Berserker Camp. Also, Northern Desert has weaker normal bosses, I'm pretty sure (since there are two of them, which is odd for Normal dungeons).
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Re: hidden boss modifiers

Postby collapsinghrung on Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:54 pm

Northern Desert has a weaker Aequitas but a full-strength (normal) Tower of Goo. Hard dungeons use *all kinds* of different modifiers for boss stats; Labyrinth and Shifting Passages seem to make the random bosses a little stronger than "standard Hard"; Hexx Ruins uses Normal stats; Havendale Bridge uses stats slightly stronger than Normal but slightly weaker than Doubledoom... it's a total mess. I chose to consider Halls of Steel, Ick Swamp, and The Slime Pit "standard", but my only reasoning there was that those are the dungeons where boss stats are round numbers. On the other hand, Normal boss stats are never round numbers.

I understood that the challenge of Grimm's Grotto was supposed to be that monster layout was random instead of starting you near level 1 and 2 monsters. The description for Grimm's might actually call out its high modifiers: "It's absolutely infested with all sorts of nasty nasties who seem a fair bit tougher than average dungeon monsters." But since GG is the continuation of Venture Cave, I had interpreted that as just meaning the monsters were tougher (because it was a Hard dungeon), not as meaning the monsters were tougher (because GG monsters get a huge dungeon-specific stat boost).
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Re: hidden boss modifiers

Postby dislekcia on Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:12 pm

Each level has a custom difficulty modifier for enemies and one for bosses. They're set according to how the level is designed up front. Although remember that as you progress through the game and unlock more stuff, those numbers are further modified as well...
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Re: hidden boss modifiers

Postby TheSchachter on Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:41 pm

I have a lot of this stuff more or less memorized, actually; I started being interested in this when the devs wrote a blog post about the Vicious token and its fine-tunings (don't have the link handy, but you can find one on these forums if you search a bit). Off the top of my head (along with a couple of checks to my videos), the standard boss damage of 75 is modified according to the following "tiers":

Normal: 75
Hard tier 1: 82 (x1.1)
Hard tier 2: 97 (x1.3)
Vicious (natural): 105 (x1.4)
Vicious (token): 120 (x1.6)

I *think* that the bosses' HP is modified accordingly, except for the Vicious Token modifier which is actually x2 for HP instead of 1.6.

The dungeons are distributed into the tiers as follows (? signals I'm not sure, with the provision that even the ones that don't have ? could be wrong; heck, I might be missing a tier in there)

Normal: All "normal" dungeons, Hexx Ruins, Berserker's Camp
Hard tier 1: Doubledoom, Havendale Bridge, Creeplight Ruins (?), Rock Garden, Cursed Oasis (?)
Hard tier 2: Labyrinth, Ick Swamp, Halls of Steel (Hard), Shifting Passages, Magma Mines, Slime Pits
Vicious (natural): All "vicious" dificulty dungeons (except VGT; see below), Grimm's Grotto (!)

Note1: As mentioned in the posts above, Aequitas in the Northern Desert is actually a completely different boss than regular Aequitas. I don't know if it's regular Aequitas stats lowered significantly or just plain different ones.

Note2: When doing the "bankers" quests at the very beginning of the game, the overall monster stats are lowered. Possibly to the level of Hobbler's Hold? Not sure.

Note3: Hard Gaan-Telet and Vicious Gaan-Telet, if I'm not mistaken, use the same regular monster stats for the ground floor and first three floors. I believe this is the "Hard tier 2" (x1.3) modifier. The difference, of course is that VGT's floors keep modifying the monster stats further per floor. I don't feel I need to mention Horatio here :P

EDIT: Note4: I've never tried it out myself (and I can't check since I don't have access to the game right now), but from what I remember reading on these forums, the stats of the bosses native to the vicious dungeons (Namtar, The Avatar, etc.) are considered "base" and are therefore fully modified by the Vicious Token's x1.6 modifier. This would be in contrast to, for instance, Dragon Isles' version of The Firstborn, which is already at x1.4 in the regular version of Dragon Isles and therefore is only boosted "slightly" (ahaha) in comparison. THESE ARE MERELY MY ASSUMPTIONS!

Since dislekcia mentions that progression affects the modifiers, I should mention that pretty much all of this is based on a fully unlocked kingdom. If anyone has corrections (or knows that I'm flat out wrong), I'd love to hear it!
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