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QCF Design Community • View topic - Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout


Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Astral on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:25 pm

I get you, and sorry for the textwall. Completely agree with you on that the wiki should list many race class combos, not just the most straightforward or 'optimal' choices.

Why the Orc hasn't been listed on the BM page is probably because choosing an Orc works well with everything, it could be mentioned anywhere. Same goes for worshiping Binlor, or especially doing both.

Also to me the Orc BM of Binlor is a somewhat advanced combo. If you know next to nothing about the game, just by reading the traits of BM you can come to the conclusion that the Gnome is good, and will be fine no matter what you prep on him.
For the Orc BM of Binlor, you need to know the god and on top of that break the mental barrier that the god of wall breaking and huge damage is great for a caster too, who only wants Pisorf. (Why you want Pisorf isn't obvious either, at least with the Wizard you have the clue that the glyph cost reduction works best with that and the CP syphoning and glpyh sensing makes the life of an Orc easier.)

What I'm getting at is that the wiki is missing a lot of possibly very good race/class/god combos, and while showing and explaining the basic ones teach newcomers lot of concepts, trying to show too many advanced ones can rob readers from the the chance of discovering those on their own. I feel discovery is one of the most important aspects of DD, this is what keeps me from sharing many of my strats there too.
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Lujo on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:53 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Astral on Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:31 pm

I never worried about synergistic or 'full package' combos, cause they quickly become boring, and so motivate you to try something else. At least this is how it works for me. Despite Gnome BMs were the 1st I discovered, by far they are the least played by me. And I can't even say that Gnome BMs are the strongest, some specialized weirdass combos can leave them in the dust.

I think in DD it's kinda hard giving general advices for any class, because if you don't consider your race and god (or even items) you can't tell what decisions are good and what are bad in many cases. If you pick a combo first, you can start explaining that though. So while DD shouldn't be about combos only, you are somewhat forced to explain stuff through combos to give objectively good advice.

The 7 mana BM sentence were supposed to say this: do nothing and BMs are the 2nd best gnome casters. Raise their mana by 7 and they are number 1.

You should take another look at my most recent Momentum explanation. No matter how may times you want to hit your target it's best to kill your soon to be sacrificed popcorn in 1 go. Only try else if you have lifesteal/blue bead etc.
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Tinker on Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:30 pm

Ok, this is not about the layout, but a general point, hopefully bringing a bit of discussion... Is there consensus about what should be a recommended race for each class? What I'm thinking, very roughly, is:

1. Races sections should be beefed up to include those strategies and perks that work with most/all classes right on the race pages. Arguably, one of the benefits of playing an Elf is that you can increase your mana pool, which in turn allows you to play almost any class as a spellcaster. Halflings allow you to pull Health Potions out of your... satchel, so they will be able to pull off health spiking better than any other race, and have certain other synergies as well (with some of the deities, items, etc.). This means that even if a race is not specifically mentioned for a class, you can put 2+2 together and just play the race that suits the intended playstyle. Like, I play Gnomes all the time, even on apparently non-synergistic classes, but by playing them in a certain way, I create the synergy that allows me to fully leverage Gnomes even on a Priest or whatnot. That doesn't mean, though, that I would recommend Gnomes with every class, even if I see a synergy somewhere; I would recommend Gnomes in general for their versatility and mana spike, and I would specifically recommend them with caster classes due to the mana spike synergizing well with i.e. increased mana pool, or other caster perks.

2. Classes sections should focus on the features of the class, and should mention recommended races in order to help players make the most of their experience playing that class. For this end, I would stick to listing specific synergies, as well as exceptionally powerful combinations, and maybe keep in "honorable mentions" for something that is spectacular, though not necessarily top-tier.

For example, if a class offers an Attack Bonus, I would mention Orc as a synergistic race because the Base Attack bonus synergizes well with the Attack bonus of the class. That does not mean that an Orc is not good with any other class - it just means that they synergize exceptionally well with the indicated class. I would be wary of going into great length about 2nd or 3rd degree synergies, because you can have a situation where a certain package (class+race+deity+prep) is awesome, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the class+race part of it is by nature sufficiently awesome.

I would also like to see a bit more balanced mentions of the synergies existing between Race-Deity and Class-Deity (for example, Humans synergize well with GG, in general, irrespective of class, due to his ability to boost Base Damage). I would also mention the non-intuitive (but sometimes useful) synergy between potion races and GG/Dracul at least as a "Honorable Mentions" type entry.

If a class would have to list too many races, we can just change it and say "any" for recommended, like the current Tinker entry has it.

thoughts?
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Lujo on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:06 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:13 pm

While we're on the subject of the wiki, if any of the admins could delete some spam whenever they drop by that'd be great. The orphaned page listing is a good resource for finding spam, as most legitimate pages are not orphaned.

I've been plugging away at the huge deluge that landed over the weekend, but it'd go a lot faster if other admins would help out.
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Lujo on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:48 pm

I was gonna ask, being an admin and all - how do we delete them exactly?
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:27 pm

There's a drop-down arrow next to "view history". If you're an admin then delete is one of the options on the drop-down menu. Make sure you clear out the reason field, because it pre-populates with the article's text. This isn't helpful, and only serves to clog the recent history page with the very same spam content you just deleted.
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby Tinker on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:11 am

Btw I fleshed out the entry on Demonic Library a bit: http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDu ... ic_Library

Comments / edits welcome. Next up Namtar.
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Re: Wiki Discussion - Dungeon Page Layout

Postby lieronet on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:55 am

Don't need the quests header when there's no quests. Just move the mention of the Codex into the boss description and you're good. Everything else looks solid.
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