Fighter races / strategies

[Tinker]

I noticed that the Fighter http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDungeons/index.php?title=Fighter article on the wiki is somewhat brief. I had an urge to see it completed, because lately I've had unexpected success with this class on even some Vicious dungeons, which has lead me to believe that at least I've vastly underestimated it's power (which I now consider to be top tier, not broken but definitely top-notch).

So I did a bit of experimenting. My first theory said that the Fighter is good because it reaches high levels quickly, so those Races would work best that benefit high-level conversions: Halfling, Gnome and Human. I was not overwhealmed by my results, I had especially high hopes for my Gnome Fighter, but I had difficulties getting my character off the ground on early levels. (Human is better, because already at level 2-3 there is some tingling effect from conversions.)

So my next theory was that Fighters - lacking a combat edge initially - benefit most from the Races that reward early conversions, like Elf, Orc and Dwarf. I did have monstrously easy plays at some Vicious PQIs with both the Orc and the Elf, however I had a bit of difficulty with the Dwarf, because although I had the Health, I lacked the damage, so it didn't feel so monstrous as either of the other two Races. Maybe if I can increase damage significantly, Dwarf would still rock, but right now I consider it much weaker than Orc (especially, since boosting damage from 5 to 7 or 10 to 12 feels much bigger than boosting health from 10 to 11). Plus, I kind of have a tendency to pick JJ for my Orc Fighter, because it allows me to just convert something whenever he hits me with Weakness, and thus keep my spirits high, but this makes the poor Dwarf Fighter pale even more in comparison, even if I pick Taurog for him.

Goblin for me is more of a "special interaction", I don't use it a lot, because I'm afraid that despite all the leveling, I will still want to do something, like deal melee damage, etc., and getting a third mid-fight level up from Glyphs seems a bit poorer than getting +10 damage each hit, or +5 mana on each level-up.

So I think that my second theory proves more solid, leading to the final assessment of:
Great: Orc and Elf
Good: Dwarf (should be "great" but I just can't make it work), Human (could be average but still seems to work better than the rest)
Average: Halfling, Gnome, Goblin (the latter with honorable mentions for speedy leveling)

In terms of strategies, I'm usually picking + Damage items to get me off the floor, or + Mana items. With the Elf I prepare Mystera, with the Orc I either prepare Jehora or just leave it up to fate, there are decent deities out there and I can be flexible enough with my choice, practically every deity can be made to work with the Orc.

Thoughts? Comments? Anything I'm missing?

[Darvin]

[lieronet]

Speaking of the wiki, we should probably pick a standard layout for the class pages. It's all over the map at the moment and doesn't look great. Do you think we need to go over every race choice for a class, or should we just focus on the standout combinations?

[Darvin]

[Lujo]

???

Fighter is a kick-ass spellcasting class, also known as "the king of DING!". Since it sinergizes with anything that boosts your mana, it also sinergizes with Crystal Ball (and basically anything that plays off a huge mana pool). Because of great sinergy with WONNAFYT and the fact that it lets you conserve blackspace, Fighter's are also good with B2P if they can find it (again, anything that lets you get more out of a ding).

Elves are the most obvious choice of best race, followed closely by goblins. JJ and Mystera are both fine, but THE deity for Fighters is TT. Tikki's Edge + Fighter + Slowing stuff = silly, and since fighers like dinging more than potion spikes, you can basically trade any excess piety for potions.

Health based fighters should probably be in Drac - they can level up really fast which means get to "end game" really fast which makes Drac better, and since you're a popcorn muncher and Drac rewards popcorn munching, the sinergy is pretty obvious. TT -> kill undead + spend gold for Tikki's Edge -> Popcorn Bowl -> go Drac should be rather good.

The fighter is a spiking class, not the best option in long endurance runs, but is otherwise a kickass spellcaster, up there with the best of them.

But mainly, Wonnafyt + B2P + TT + Fighter is among the silliest things in the game.

[Blovski]

Yeah, fighters are enormously powerful, especially in high-end scenarios when you need a mixed spike (Dragon Isles, Naga City, Demonic Library). When I'm rolling purist with a fighter I tend to go for Elf. Fighters' issues are a relative lack of leverage for higher level kills and their advantages are not needing them and having a ton of level ups favours the big mana pool.

Goblin is very strong as well because it makes your spike even bigger and lets you bypass some of the early-level troubles, Gnome and Halfling I'd give a miss, Dwarves are kinda niche (I have one dwarf-based strategy for Paladins... others use them for Rogues, I think occasionally people mess around with Bloodmages, that's about it I think), Humans and Orcs both work alright. Darvin's nailed the different roles of them.

About gods:
JJ is a great choice for the reasons Darvin noted above (bonus health/mana for the level ups, weytwut, a couple of extra full restores for the spike). Glowing Guardian is pretty good (bonus health, fast levelling and thus piety, earlyish enlightenment gives extra mana as well, especially for elves).

Earthmother and MA are both excellent if you're building as a caster. Tikki Tooki synergises well with the extra XP. Binlor and Taurog are the only ones I don't use with fighters that often. Dracul can work but as always he's more of a late-game deity.

Items to look out for include Dragon Soul and Witchalok Amulet.

[lieronet]

Interesting note: the class info boxes appear to have info on suggested races and unlock conditions, but it doesn't appear to display properly. Anyone experienced with wiki magic have any suggestions on how to fix?

Also, do we need to list class features twice? Seems redundant.

Anyway, cleaned the page up a bit, but I think it needs some fleshing out a bit still.

[Darvin]

[Tinker]

[Blovski]

@Tinker, the issue isn't as much the total amount of XP as how much control you have over when you get it (cf Assassins where Elf with Yendar is probably better). Yendar's OK but you're getting exactly one full restore off it and your control of the timing isn't nearly as granular.

Balanced Dagger's very good. Titan Guitar is obscene.