Speedrun Routing Thread

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Re: Speedrun Routing Thread

Postby TheSchachter on Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Ugh, a logout lost a nice detailed post. Quick summary:

-Human Wizards are really good for Gaan-Telet, I just won a faithless-purist-basic items and glyphs only- run with a no-exp lvl 10 floor (Binlor, but with the blinking sword) and a retaliate fireball floor that had 3 mana burn enemies. It was a very close call, but this was to simulate a gods-related worst case scenario. I'd say the Wizard's bonuses (especially the scouting+magnet fireball for blackspace preservation and mana discount to enable some glyph combos) might edge them slightly above Dwarf Rogues in terms of reliability.

-If we're okay with 80-90% success rate for the fewest-runs playthrough, I don't think we can justify the bank quest's 50% chance of adding an extra run. Which runs do we feel might warrant that extra power other than HGT? Perhaps a binlor-less Labyrinth run (a likely situation)? Might be worth setting up a "worst case scenario" kingdom progression to run repeated tests and get an idea of the odds or think up strategies.

-Thoughts on Soul Orb and Viper ward? (Dunno whether puzzles would count for the fewest-runs playthrough, for that matter)

-Bank cap: The way I *think* it works, is that the first time you come back from a dungeon with a gold amount that goes over the cap, the overflow from that cap is preserved, but the amount won't climb higher than that. So my theory was that if you earn slightly over 500 while already near the cap, your gold would freeze at 2000-ish, allowing you to get an upgrade you otherwise shouldn't be allowed to get. Assuming I understand the mechanics correctly, of course.
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Re: Speedrun Routing Thread

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:22 am

Ugh, a logout lost a nice detailed post.

This is why I always draft long forum posts in notepad.

(Binlor, but with the blinking sword)

The Blinking Sword isn't too bad if you're got surface exploration left. You can just fireball and detonate it to quickly get rid of those DP layers. It drains resources, sure, but compared to some of the other stuff that can pop up it's tame.

and a retaliate fireball floor that had 3 mana burn enemies.

That, on the other hand, is bad. It almost makes the Gnome Puzzle pack worth doing just for the chance of a Soul Orb being in your shop pool. Seriously, it's a situational item that's only useful against a tiny subset of enemies, and yet it still ranks among the best items in the game.

Which runs do we feel might warrant that extra power other than HGT?

Labyrinth, which you already mention, is the big one. Very luck dependent due to its layout. The bear mace is one of the few reliable ways we have to approach that dungeon. If we unlock Binlor then that's good, but no assurances there. Shifting Passages is potentially problematic for similar reasons, but there are more ways to handle it there through in-dungeon technique.

There are a couple other dungeons that could potentially RNG screw us. The Den of Danger occasionally hides the boss in a corner of the map behind a narrow corridor filled with 7-9's. With bad luck in your exploration patterns, it's possible to discover this too late to punch through. It's an unlikely situation and it'll happen early in the run if it happens at all, but it's a possibility.

The Berserker Camp, the only place that will reliably drop a bandit scalp, is another place for a potential RNG screw due to the fact that the map is split in two by a single bridge - often with a long corridor on either side. It's very easy to get cut off by very powerful monsters or (on rare occasions) the boss. Havensdale Bridge has the Toll Troll; we do have the "out" of bribing him, but I'm personally of the opinion that if you can't beat the troll you probably can't beat the boss.

Finally, there's Ick Swamp. It isn't bad for the speed-run, but for minimal dungeon runs it's a huge problem since bad plant placement around your start position could gimp your run from the very beginning. There's little we can do about that other than leave it for last and hope for the unlikely Crusader unlock.

-Thoughts on Soul Orb and Viper ward? (Dunno whether puzzles would count for the fewest-runs playthrough, for that matter)

Yeah, it's a grey zone and I'm unsure how to call it. Since there's no randomness there's no chance of failure here. For a speed-run it's pretty obvious how to count 'em, and frankly given how quickly they can be completed they're probably worth the detour. For "fewest dungeon runs" it's less clear, since they're not really full dungeons. I don't think it's appropriate to make them free-bees, but the draconian interpretion that each puzzle is one run may be too harsh.

Assuming I understand the mechanics correctly, of course.

I'll be giving this some dry runs over the weekend, so I'll be sure to test this technique. Of course, if someone else wants to beat me to it then go ahead.
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