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QCF Design Community • View topic - Leaderboard


Leaderboard

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Re: Leaderboard

Postby Tinker on Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:07 pm

"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby Lujo on Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:24 pm

Not really, it's not about leaving you in the dust or being cool or anything, it's just that there's no point stretching a rund just for the statistics. I never competed for end-screen stats, and I don't remember the guys who did care about them competing in any ones but time and the number of badges. All of them said it first - those stats are mostly meaningless. I'm not competing with them in either time or badges, all I can do is take a look how folks who happened to finish around my time bracket did compared to me and that's that.

It's not about swag, it's just that - it's really meaningless, people who play for the big numbers do it because they like it (or for their own reasons believe that's the whole point, as opposed to whatever else). It's not like you couldn't "beat me" in a cheeze off (who knows?), it's that I don't see even being good at it as a contest of skill I'd enjoy. If there was several 30min folks around, that wouldn't be the "noob" bracket, that'd be the "heavyweitght" bracket. I'm obviously more of a midrange guy. I don't play around with numbers past the point of winning much, most I do is try to occasionally mop up the monsters and knock over all the altars in the daily. There's not even that much else to do in there apart from grind and busywork. I play 10-20 matches per day, where would I be if I played 30 minutes per match and thought about every step? Heck, I don't even chase time or prep the most obviously beneficial stuff at my bracket either - I'm not a competitive guy.
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby TheSchachter on Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:15 pm

Come watch my Desktop Dungeons Videos!
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCthxFjzttU83tslTUnoFhug
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby Tinker on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:10 am

I've been wondering about the "Damage dealt" metric.

I mean, XP gained is pretty clear, you want to maximize XP gain, and unless there's some optional shennanigans on the map (Yendor, TT), it basically comes down to, how high level kills can you do? So I find this metric quite easy to understand, you just need to kill big monsters and you get lots of XP (which is anyway what you want to do to win DD, most of the time).

Piety gained is a bit more grey because 1 point of Binlor Piety does not equal 1 point of Dracul Piety, or vice verse. Different altars will allow you to turn different things into piety. Now, generally, you do want to maximize piety, as this helps you to pick up boons, but it's far less integral to winning a map (on some maps you don't even need any). But I guess here the point is, you need to cheeze the deity / farm the piety, which is arguably still a good thing, and something I anyway try to do, to have more leeway with boons.

I can't really wrap my head around the Damage dealt metric, though. The amount of health each monster has is fixed, as this is a random seed map. So one element of this is whether you kill every monster, but I kind of assume most of us do that anyway. So the only way you can do more damage (if I understand it correctly), is if you damage a monster and deliberately allow it to heal back. Is this really the case? Because if it is, I don't see how useful this metric is, for anything, because the only time you will have a high figure on this one is if you're inefficient in taking down the monsters, and maybe have to re-start some monsters from scratch. Like, I remember having a good score on this metric when I played the CO map, but it was probably because I was unlucky with the Shades teleportation, and they kept bouncing away into blackspace and I had to start many of them anew... Anything I'm missing on this one?
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby berpdreyfuss on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:21 am

One reason is regen fighting, so the measure of damage dealt tells you something about the playstyle as well.
Last edited by berpdreyfuss on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby dislekcia on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:34 am

Two things. Fighting style information: Spiking vs regenfighting. And it becomes a lot more relevant in failed runs, which you vets aren't really doing. It's there to allow people who are going to fail dailies to have another thing to compare with their friends that acts as a stepping stone towards getting better at the game. If they start thinking about doing more damage, that's never a bad thing.

There's also no such thing as a good score, only comparative scores.
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby berpdreyfuss on Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:13 am

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Re: Leaderboard

Postby dislekcia on Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:54 am

Yes, we spent a lot of time designing how the leaderboards would work. We couldn't really record that much very easily and there's a lot of empirical evidence that scores in DD really don't work, no matter what algorithm we tried. Just take a look at the alpha's various run ending screens...

In the end we decided to try and give people different scales they could compare on and hopefully feel good about at least one of them. We know that sorting by time is a potential problem, but because you can't scum in dailies, it's actually not a terrible metric of game knowledge/familiarity.
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby Tinker on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:10 pm

"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: Leaderboard

Postby Berzee on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:27 pm

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