The Games

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The Games

Postby ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:05 pm

This isn't really a challenge, it's just something for folks to "participate in". You can also see it as a scoring metric of sorts for dungeon runs. Not sure if it would be interesting, feel free to comment or suggest improvements, :)

************************************************************* LEADERBOARD (Started 08 Dec 2015) ************************************************************

1. devilchn - 552, Dwarf Transmuter - Vicious Gaan-Telet :twisted: [Fe|Sp|Un|Ch|D!M], Time: 162 mins, First Boss Kill: +7, 08 Dec 2015
2. Darvin - 480, Goblin Assassin - Dragon Isles :twisted: [Pur|Sp|Un|D!M], Time: 14 mins, First Boss Kill: +1, 08 Dec 2015
3. choongmyoung - 432, Human Assassin - Dragon Isles :twisted: [Fe|Sp|Un|Mi|D!M], Time: 9 mins, First Boss Kill: +0, 13 Aug 2016
4. Tinker - 384, Elf Wizard - Namtar's Lair :twisted: [Pur|Fe|Un|Ch|D!M], Time: 134 mins, First Boss Kill: +2, 08 Dec 2015
5. William - 324, Vampire - Tower of Gaan-Telet :twisted: [Pur|Fa|Un|D!M], Time: 26 mins, First Boss Kill: +2, 08 Dec 2015
6. ~'(^ + ^)'~ - 304, Goblin Thief - Vicious Steel :twisted: [Pur|D!M], Time: 75 mins, First Boss Kill: +3, 08 Dec 2015
7. zayyeh - 232, Orc Monk - Magma Mines :twisted: [War|Sp|Ch], Time: 5 mins, First Boss Kill: +4, 20 Jul 2016
8. eastless - 216, Dwarf Transmuter - Vicious Gaan-Telet [Sp|Un|Mi|D!M], Time: 140 mins, First Boss Kill: +5, 10 Dec 2015

Example:
1. Player A - 200, Orc Thief - Naga City [Fe|S|U], Time: 45 mins, First Boss Kill: +2, 22 Dec 2015
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

To keep the post short, I will be putting the rules and such in spoiler tags (not sure how to do the dropdown list thingy in another way).

RULES:
Spoiler: show
    1. You just have to beat any dungeon, no restrictions.
    2. Post your victory screenshot.

SCORING:
Spoiler: show

    Score = VT Multiplier x Difficulty Multiplier x Raw Score, where

    VT Multiplier = 2 if Vicious Token is prepped, else it is 1,

    Difficulty Multiplier (Dungeon): Easy = 1, Normal = 2, Hard = 4, Hard+ = 6, Vicious = 8, Vicious+ = 12
    [Hard+ is for Tower of Gaan-Telet, Vicious+ is for Vicious Gaan-Telet],

    Raw Score = 10 - Preps + Badges + Time + First Boss Kill, where

    Preps = Number of categories of preps used (excluding Vicious Token, so Min of 0 and Max of 8),

    Badges = Total score for badges obtained (excluding Vicious Token), and these are:
      1 for Cheeky, Ding! Max,
      2 for Unstoppable, Miser,
      3 for Faithless, Feeling Parched and Specialist,
      4 for Hoarder, Warmonger,
      5 for Purist
    Time = Score based on Time taken to complete Dungeon, Calculation is as follows:
      Step 1: Half Time taken if playing Vicious Gaan-Telet
      Step 2: Score is given based on the following table (getting less than or equal to time gives score)
        15 - 5 mins
        14 - 6 mins
        13 - 7 mins
        12 - 8 mins
        11 - 9 mins
        10 - 10 mins
        9 - 12.5 mins
        8 - 15 mins
        7 - 17.5 mins
        6 - 20 mins
        5 - 25 mins
        4 - 30 mins
        3 - 40 mins
        2 - 50 mins
        1 - 60 mins
    First Boss Kill = Level difference between you and the first boss you killed (Min of 0 and Max of 9),
      Bosses include mini-bosses such as those in Magma Mines, Rock Garden, Demonic Library, etc.
      Note: In Tower of Gaan-Telet and Vicious Gaan-Telet, only the "special" mini-boss in the sub-floors count as Bosses.

RANKING:
Spoiler: show
    1. Each player will only have 1 entry in the leaderboard based on the highest Score he or she has obtained so far.
    2. An example entry in the leaderboard is provided and contains the date and specific details of the best score the player has obtained so far. Purely made up so score may not tally.
    3. Players with tied scores will be ranked based on time of entry, so whoever posts later is ranked lower.
Last edited by ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:22 pm, edited 27 times in total.
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Re: The Games

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:31 pm

This is similar in some respects to the dungeon of the day I did years back. Notably, I also had a class handicap that represented that some classes are just less effective at badge-hunting than others.

Anyways, a few remarks on your scoring method.

Preps = Number of categories of preps used (excluding Vicious Token, so Min of 0 and Max of 8)
...5 for Purist

This is double-rewarding purist, and makes it worth too many points IMO. Especially with Tinker's purist vicious challenge floating around it's a little hard to compete with purist runs when you could easily be taking an 11 point penalty for actually using preparations.

Bosses includes mini-bosses such as those in Magma Mines, Rock Garden, Demonic Library, etc.

Does this include the Shade in Cursed Oasis, since it straddles the line between being a boss and not (its death isn't necessary to complete the dungeon, so strictly speaking it's not a boss).
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Re: The Games

Postby ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:38 pm

Darvin wrote:This is double-rewarding purist, and makes it worth too many points IMO. Especially with Tinker's purist vicious challenge floating around it's a little hard to compete with purist runs when you could easily be taking an 11 point penalty for actually using preparations.

Ok, it's just that bringing preps makes some or many badges easier to obtain too, so players should be rewarded for doing it Purist.

Darvin wrote:Does this include the Shade in Cursed Oasis, since it straddles the line between being a boss and not (its death isn't necessary to complete the dungeon, so strictly speaking it's not a boss).

Yes, definitely, makes sense this way.

Just wanted to mention also, that this is not intended to be "competitive". You can see it as a way to "compete with yourself" and improve your own score. Also, I understand that there can't be a completely fair scoring criteria with different classes having different advantages, relative difficulty of badges to class used, etc.
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Re: The Games

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:42 pm

On consideration, I don't suppose you'd consider throwing in a time component to the scoring? :twisted:
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Re: The Games

Postby ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:47 pm

Darvin wrote:On consideration, I don't suppose you'd consider throwing in a time component to the scoring? :twisted:

It's kind of hard to have different sets of times for different maps of different difficulties, and hard to get good numbers for what is average time, etc.

Cool to include but it is also kind of "unfair" to new players or most players in general who don't have fast times. It can be another whole thing by itself - Speed challenge for each map - fastest time for each map, add in Purist, etc. Just makes it more complicated with what I currently have if added in.

And you know, maps with random bosses, 2 players with the exact same "loadout" can take different amounts of time due to RNG (like 1 guy getting the Medusa boss vs another guy getting SMM).

Sorry, I know it is your thing but I think it really complicates what I have here.
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Re: The Games

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:22 pm

~'(^ + ^)'~ wrote:It's kind of hard to have different sets of times for different maps of different difficulties, and hard to get good numbers for what is average time, etc.

VGT is really the only one where you'd need to make an adjustment, due to being longer than every other dungeon by an order of magnitude. Everything else is already accounted for in the difficulty multiplier, with longer dungeons having higher multipliers to begin with. The actual difference between various dungeons isn't that substantial, and the variance is comparable to the difference in difficulty in nabbing specific badges or getting a higher-level boss kill.

In any case, if you want some conservative numbers I'd use the following:

1 hour = +1
45 minutes = +2
30 minutes = +3
20 minutes = +4
18 minutes = +5
16 minutes = +6
14 minutes = +7
12 minutes = +8
10 minutes = +9
9 minutes = +10
8 minutes = +12
7 minutes = +14
6 minutes = +16
5 minutes = +20

If playing vicious gaan-telet, halve your time before applying scoring. No other changes on any dungeon (more difficult dungeons just have higher multipliers, as you already have). So for instance my VT Purist submission was done in 14:09, which would be worth +6 points.

Cool to include but it is also kind of "unfair" to new players or most players in general who don't have fast times.

No more unfair than ignoring it as a scoring metric for those who do have fast times. Ultimately it's completely arbitrary as to which metrics you choose to use, and whether you include or ignore a specific method will advantage or disadvantage different players depending on whether that's where their strength lies.

And you know, maps with random bosses, 2 players with the exact same "loadout" can take different amounts of time due to RNG (like 1 guy getting the Medusa boss vs another guy getting SMM).

That's true of anything; running into a favorable or unfavorable boss is going to completely change the outlook of a run.

Sorry, I know it is your thing but I think it really complicates what I have here.

Honestly, it's less complicated than "first higher level boss kill".
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Re: The Games

Postby ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:20 am

@Darvin:

I took your suggestion into consideration, removed First Boss Kill component and added a Time component. Tweaked the scoring to give it less Maximum points (from 20 to 15), and generally made it more "lenient" somewhat but still giving fast times a big score lead.

Hope this improves the system I have, :)
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Re: The Games

Postby Darvin on Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:19 am

~'(^ + ^)'~ wrote:15 - 3 mins
14 - 4 mins
13 - 5 mins
12 - 6 mins
11 - 7 mins
10 - 8 mins
9 - 9 mins
8 - 10 mins
7 - 15 mins
6 - 20 mins
5 - 25 mins
4 - 30 mins
3 - 40 mins
2 - 50 mins
1 - 60 mins

Sure, that's fairly reasonable too. I would suggest eliminating the 3 and 4 minute thresholds, and adding two more thresholds into the 10-20 minute range so that the system caps out at 15 point at 5 minutes. And trust me, getting under 5 minutes on a VT Vicious run while pursuing badges will be fricken hard; I doubt there will be many takers.
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Re: The Games

Postby ~'(^ + ^)'~ on Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:53 am

@Darvin: Noted, Updated.

Anyone wants to post an entry? :)

You can use the dailies - I will count each prep as 1 for the subtraction of Preps component (not via the "category of prep" for non-daily runs).
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Re: The Games

Postby Tinker on Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:19 pm

Ok, let me see if I got this! :) So, if I were to nominate my Namtar's Lair run (that got the most badges), it'd be like this:

1. Player T - 352, Elf Wizard - Namtar's Lair [Ch|D!M|Fe|U|Pur|Vic], Time: 134 mins, 3 Oct 2015

(score is... 2 * 8 * (10-0+12+0) = 352)

Right?

Do you need new runs, or just any run already posted will do?

(I don't think I'll even try to do anything on the time metric, I play slow but I also keep the game running all the time, which gives these horrendous 2-3+ hour times, but I guess this much is fair to give Darvin a fighting chance... :lol:)
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