QCF Design Community

From what I've read over the last several months here, it seems that people are more dependent upon using the proper gods at the right time for certain dungeons than they are for having the right item available.

A lot of people have been beating the vicious dungeons going purist. Just wondering if it would be harder to do them Faithless?

Wondering, because I don't play the vicious dungeons. I'm definitely NOT a "completist" when it comes to DD. There's too many classes and dungeons I just don't enjoy.

That's a good point. I guess I was thinking along the lines of the other classes.

For example, is Naga City more difficult Purist versus Faithless with classes other than Vampire?

That depends, honestly. If you take race-class-dungeon as a puzzle, some are "solved" by having the right god avalable, some can be sufficiently solved in other ways.

Most of the game can be done without using gods at all, and I suppose Vicious dungeons are much harder to do because they naturally assume you're using every feature at your disposal. Other stuff you can do without even unlocking gods. Gods are boon dispensers, and part of why purist is difficult is that you don't get to use a god from the get go, which often makes a god more useful than they would be otherwise.

On the other hand, items are all over the place and having the particular one you want for your race-class may be a way to solve the run before it begins (backed up by the blacksmith, seals, potions etc.). If an item is a Vicious Reward or something busted or powerful which solves the main gameplay challenge of a race-class combo, going without it can make the run way more difficult than going without gods. But some of that stuff is so powerful that you very rarely even think about it.

I mean, if you have a race/class which becomes ludicrous if you can get over the initial levels, on a map where the challenge involves surviving the early game, you can probably prep a yendor and roll it because that one prep let you skip the part that's supposed to be the challlenge and go straight to the payoff from square 1. If you're, say, a Bloodmage - gods can certainly make you more powerful, but a prepped up bloodmage = easy mode bloodmage, gods are quite often just overkill.

Depends how deep the dungeon is. Generally shorter ones are easier Faithless than Purist but the gods provide most of your long-term power options that don't involve sacrificing resources.

There's something to be said about the lower end of "trying" in favor of gods, though. If you get into a habit of rolling with a dependable race-class-god thing, purist means you can't just start in your god and execture the exact same set of moves you do everywhere. What Tinker said - if your idea of using gods involves pre-meditating the whole package, then if you go purist your gameplan won't be neraly as effortlessly explosive as you're used to.

It's like, you go Sorcerer, but instead of almost starting the game as a 4-fireballs dude the gods you find might be TT, Taurog and Dracul (not that it can't work, or that the RNG isn't rigged, but just illustrating). If your only prep is a god (Mystera) and a trinket you're a 4-fireball dude before you really do anything.

Say this is an interesting conundrum. Because if you go purist you'll find some god, and any god can win stuff for you, so in that sense purist is easier to play. Find god, understand god, milk god. You can scoop a lot of badges off of just playing your god (or gods) right.

But if you're pre-meditating faithless, then are all other preps > gods, and the answer to that is... depends on the build. And also depends on which preps are we talking about, Crystal Ball, Namtar's Ward, Amulet of Yendor, that sort of thing certainly is, and so's a bunch of other stuff for various builds. Other preps count a ton too (fireball magnet, seals, potions, bear mace...).

Purist tends to be the most luck-based badge. Finding a good glyph, item, or altar close to the dungeon entrance is huge in a purist run. Purist can be very easy or very hard by virtue of factors that are completely beyond your control. It's one of the reasons why it's one of my least-favorite badges. Even a single prep can make a huge difference in reliability. The T3 classes and wizard, with their free glyph, are inherently superior for purist runs, but in principle anyone can just find something good near the dungeon entrance.

This thread has gotten me thinking about badges and classes. Here's my rundown:

Purist: Wizard has the most consistent Purist game by far. Transmuter isn't bad because of Lemmisee, and is actually superior if you scum (Purist scumming is free after all). Gorgon is stymied by seemingly every monster trait (mana burn, poison, curse, weakening, corrosion, physical resistance, undead), but she is still the most reliable Purist solution to the Labyrinth.

Warmonger: This is probably the hardest badge outside of specialist prep builds. With specific preps, anyone can do it, but for it to arise out of natural play is extremely rare. Berserkers who find Taurog are obvious candidates, but everyone else is going to be using glyphs all the time. Even Taurogzerkers want to use magic, they can just get closer to the finish line without them via natural play.

Miser: An annoying badge because you'll find all kinds of cool combos in the shops and it's frustrating to abstain, but it also emerges out of normal play reasonably often. Thieves and Tinkers are hit hardest by it, no one is especially advantaged towards it.

Faithless: Faithless emerges out of natural play quite often. No god is useful in every situation, and sometimes none of the altars you find are appropriate when you find them. Faithless is probably one of the hardest badges to combo with other badges. Gods can greatly mitigate Warmonger and Parched, and the extra resources make all the other tasks easier in general. Paladins and Crusaders obviously hate this badge. I'd say Wizard and Thief are the best at Faithless (Vampires don't count) because of their flexibility. Seriously, Thieves don't get enough love. Hoarder is a ridiculous ability and it never gets any press.

Hoarder: I hate this badge. It's not just the loss of your racial trait, it's the inventory aggravations that it causes. You can't just use and ditch LEMISEE, WONAFYT is no longer an auto pick up, and shops are a pain to use. It also badly interferes with your gods. Every god either rewards you for wrecking items and/or fills up your inventory will items and glyphs. Wizards hate this badge because it kills one of their best traits, Tinkers hate it because it limits the number of items they can cycle through. That being said, it isn't the hardest badge, it's just the most annoying.

The other badges are easy and don't count :p