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QCF Design Community • View topic - Confessions


Confessions

All things Desktop Dungeons

Confessions

Postby Tinker on Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:09 am

A wise man once told me that in life we sometimes have to "come full circle", and return to a familiar place. On the one hand, this is about constancy, as the place we return to is still the same as it was before. On the other hand, it is also about change, as we will see how our experiences in the meantime have changed us, and have also changed how we will relate to that same familiar place.

As I was building up my new kingdom, this came to my mind, and I found it also apt for DD. Anyway, the reason I made this post was to share some of the perceptions I had about DD that have changed over time (I'm sure some of these will be funny/familiar to read...). Apologies in advance for the textwall(s). I totally wanted to post something short & witty, and I failed miserably! :lol: Read at your own risk, though I do hope you'll read at least bits, and add your comments / share your own experiences! :) I did use the spoiler thingy to conceal each section, hopefully making the whole piece easier to digest... ;)

Glyphs

Deities

Classes

Races

Items
"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: Confessions

Postby Spleen on Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Alright, my turn - wall of text time! It's my favourite time :D . I'd played this game for like 40 hours and never beat Gaan-Telet or any Vicious dungeon, came back a year later, had totally different views on everything.

Glyphs


Deities


Classes


Races


Items



Special note for Goatperson: died to Venture Cave on my first go. RIP. Now the Goatperson is the only class with whom I have beaten all non-VGT levels. Other than Naga City, I actually found the Goatperson surprisingly strong, especially for a challenge class. I even managed to beat Vicious Steel in 5:30 or something because I opened up GG->Binlor and had Yendor prepped. Other than the lack of refreshes on level-up (easily fixed with scholar or conversion pacts) they seem to play exactly how I do anyway: Low exploration and spiking the hell out of anything that shoots a nasty look your way!
Last edited by Spleen on Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confessions

Postby Darvin on Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:07 pm

In my case it's a little weird, since I started playing at the beginning of the beta and the game has changed around me. The CYDSTEPP glyph we see today is not the CYDSTEPP glyph that existed at the start of the beta, and the game surrounding it is quite different as well. Some items are so completely different that they simply aren't comparable (all 4 or 5 versions of the Trisword come to mind) and even a few classes are completely incomparable to what they used to be.

That said, a few things that will never change:

Assassin: love him
Taurog: hate him
WONAFYT: love to hate it
Mage Plate: something I actually like but never actually end up using
Dwarf: something I don't particularly care for, and never actually end up using
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Re: Confessions

Postby tollymain on Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:42 pm

i'm too much of a latecomer to this game still to be able to make much of an interesting post in this thread, but my feelings on various options in the game have evolved a good bit

early on i didn't understand how good the basic shop items were, especially pendant of mana.

it took a while for me to figure out how to use monk and bloodmage, i intellectually understand transmuter but still haven't really had it click for me. i can't say i've had a favorite class at any point though, i like variety too much for that. (hey tinker, what do you use the fighter's monster radar for? so far i only get much out of it when i'm rocking the balanced dagger)

overall though i''m still learning new things all the time and i don't particularly dislike anything, i just haven't gotten competent with some of those things yet :v
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Re: Confessions

Postby Tinker on Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:51 pm

"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: Confessions

Postby tollymain on Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:15 am

ah, i see. i kind of use it like that, but it feels very much the class's weakest feature
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Re: Confessions

Postby zayyeh on Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:29 pm

Fighter's monster radar is just awesome if you prep Balanced Dagger ;)
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Download over at ddmod.weebly.com.
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Re: Confessions

Postby Lujo on Sun May 15, 2016 3:22 am

Last edited by Lujo on Sun May 15, 2016 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Confessions

Postby Sidestepper on Sun May 15, 2016 7:38 pm

Content changed a lot during the beta. For us oldies, here's a trip down memory lane for the glyphs:

Fireball: This changed a lot. The burning effect didn't always exist, which made Fireball very one-dimensional. It was the only 100% guaranteed method of converting mana to damage directly, so it was still important, but it wasn't all that great. People were starting to convert it the moment that they confirmed that there was no Tower of Goo or Tormented One on the map.

And then burning happened. Oh my. When introduced, burning did not have the anti-regen effect that it does now, but it also didn't have a cap. You could stack it as high as you wanted. That got changed pretty fast.

Later on the anti-regen effect was added, which made Fireball a much more interesting glyph.

WONAFYT: I hated this glyph originally. It was an annoying waste of a glyph slot. It didn't grant slow like it does now, and monster spawning rules were very different. The modern algorithm places monsters at choke points, the old one didn't, meaning that you could explore much more of the map without having to fight.

Then they added Slow. Well, Slow didn't used to give bonus xp, so WONAFYT still wasn't useful. Then they changed the monster placement rules, added +1 xp to slowed kills, and changed WONAFYT spawning rules so that it always spawns near the entrance. WONAFYT would be a bad glyph if even one of those changes didn't happen, but they did, so it isn't. It's actually one of the strongest glyphs now.

WEYTWUT: Since slow didn't always grant xp, and monsters didn't spawn in chokepoints, this used to be an overpriced GETINDERE. I didn't like it because the repositioning effect was not all that useful in the old game environment, and the slow effect had too much overlap with GETINDERE. It didn't have a niche. Then the slow upgrade happened and this became really good. This is when we coined the phrase "popcorn bowl." A few months later, the monster spawn rules changed, and the repositioning effect became more important. I'm always happy to find this glyph during the exploration phase of the game.

Another late change was having Jehora grant WEYTWUT on worship. That wasn't always the case, so you didn't have a guaranteed way to get this glyph. The change opened up the possibility for specialized strategies.

GETINDERE: It was always good, but it was annoying that Rogues didn't benefit from it. Late in beta, they added the dodge effect. It used to also grant dodge prediction, which made GETINDERE the best glyph in the game, bar none. That got redacted pretty fast, but the dodge percent stayed. It was around this time that Tikki Tooki started granting this spell on worship.

IAMAWAL: This one is weird, because the spell itself changed very little, but the game environment changed around it and significantly impacted its usefulness. Bonus xp from higher level kills used to scale up sharper than they do now. IAMAWAL was awesome back then. Then the xp formula changed and it got left behind.

The problem got worse when slow was given the +1 xp effect, and when slow was added to WEYTWUT and WONAFYT. This made the opportunity cost of petrifying a monster higher (for 1st level monsters, it doubled the xp cost). The combination of higher costs and lower payouts killed its utility pretty badly. Then curse was introduced, and yet another opportunity cost was added (i.e. stoning a monster cost you the ability to kill it to clear a curse stack). It became an autoconvert.

Eventually, the devs changed IAMAWL to play nicer with the other effects. It now grants 1 xp when used on a slowed monster, and it clears a curse stack when used on an xp-valuable monster (even cursed ones, which is nice!). The gold effect was added very late in the game, but wasn't necessary, in my opinion. The upgraded IAMWAL was added to Earthmother, a change which helped both EM and IAMAWAL.

PISORF: This didn't change much, but the way we use it changed a lot. It is the most complex and confusing of the glyphs, and without a way to prep it, we didn't develop very many strategies around it. Eventually, it was added to Binlor as an on worship effect (he used to give ENDISWAL instead). This allowed us to start experimenting and ushered in the "modern" era of PISORF. PISORF is now standardly considered to be the most powerful glyph in the game, provided that you deliberately build around it.

ENDISWAL: Hardly changed at all. It was slightly impacted by the introduction of curse, and it was removed from Binlor's on worship effect.

CYDSTEP: Oh man, this glyph used to be the king. It originally had no restriction on use, so everyone who found it was equivalent to a modern Warlord. Rogues were unstoppable with it. They still kind of are. It's not so good for the other classes anymore, though Bloodmages still appreciate it.

HALPMEH: Used to heal one extra point per level than it does now. It was awesome. After CYDSTEP got nerfed, this became the next power glyph. Wizards were especially strong with it.

APHEELSIK: It was completely rewritten. The old version completely stopped all regeneration and was broken pants. The new version is middling in power, but benefits from the addition of the burning effect from fireball.

BLUDTOPOWER: Another total rewrite. It is such a complex glyph tha tI don't even want to get into it.

LEMISEE: The tiles revealed used to be random, which made the divination effect useless. It only had value as a way of tapping unreachable black space. It's now pretty nice if you find it early.
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Re: Confessions

Postby Lujo on Sun May 15, 2016 11:56 pm

You might want to spoiler all that, it's a bit OT. My fault for that probably. Great read though :) A few comments on it.

JUST OLDIES TALK


Confession - I confess to being highly satisfied about using Cydstep ever since the nerf (and the final rework) and being very sarcastic in vids about how it was soooo useless now that it was nerfed every time it allowed for something silly.

On the same note I felt so bad about campaigning to nerf the damned glyph simply because I thought so many folks just loved cydstep rogues (the retarded cheatcodes they were), anyway, I felt so bad about it not being in the game that I actually cried from joy IRL when I managed to reconstruct it with a Naga Cauldron Halfling ^^

I don't regret the Bloodmage nerfs one bit, but I whish I could remember what killed the Blue Bead Bloodmage. Something did, can't remember what! It got me my first Vicious Token win :)
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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